Did a dream got shattered?

Bert. Why are you so determined to use electric propulsion?

 

The simple answer you are after is YES. The instability can be corrected.

Is it straight forward? NO.

Can you get straight answers from us as to how to do that? NO, not without the original design in detail.

Can you provide the original design in detail on this forum and get the answers you seek? Unlikely.

There is a common thread that I see from guys like you. The good qualities that make is likely that you can pull off the building of a boat in your backyard are a stone cold detriment to selecting and following a design in detail. The end results are usually mixed. The end boat is built and looks great but it does not perform the intended job.

Please Bert, do not lose those dreams and the qualities of creative thinking, perseverence and drive. Those are the things that get a boat built. Do understand that these qualities can also bite you in the early stages of design and design selection. Take if from a guy with 8 patents, don't try to reinvent the wheel. Use your creative ability to solve the many problems you come across in trying to end up with a build that is close to the intended design. That in itself is a tough enough task.

Design in and of itself is an artform unto itself and that is why you will not get stone cold factual answers to your questions here. Creative ability is one thing. Directing that creative ability from a historical background is quite another.

 

Bert- Is your design Hartley?...off topic
I bought his book on ferro-cement--its quite good. I am assuming your design is not a ferro design? for which Hartley is famous for.

I re-read some of the posts on your thread- It seems you and i suffer from a similar ailment-the "perfect boat syndrome" Its a nasty disease causing sleepless nights- headaches and huge ***-aches. I had a similar problem recently--i just couldn't decide on a design-(yeah some people reading on here know this already) and i couldn't decide between a boat or a submarine i had designed. eventually i figured out (on my own) that i wanted a live-aboard first. that my need to get away on the water and just live...was far more important to me...so I had this one boat design I just couldnt let go of...i loved it -it has the perfect lines- the right hull--the shear was a joy to look at (if you like tugs)etc only one problem--it was too big. I tried everything to make it fit my budget -rescaling it- seeing how small i could go etc etc...reducing framing and scantling and in the pit of my stomach i knew THAT wasn't going to work...and of course there were no plans that seemed just right i always kept coming back to the bigger one.- thankfully I have some knowledge of design and i actually designed one to my own specs.- in the end it wont be perfect- no boat is...there will be flaws..do i care??..not really--
boats are always going to be a compromise...(look up the famous quote from the late Sam Rable about the perfect boat)
If I can make a suggestion- no its not technical -since there are people on here far more qualified than I for that, but why not take a week to put the boat on the back burner- think about what you REALLY NEED!!
think about what you are going to use it for- that's -to me- of prime importance.. ask yourself what is it your willing to compromise on?
13%--is a small reduction true- If it was me-id just build it to specs or go ahead and build it at 13% --don't worry what anyone else says because only you- will in the end -find YOUR answers....
you will be amazed at how things tend to go your way when you actually just move toward the project.

I have to agree with PierreR- you just gotta build it-- if you fail you have not lost anything in fact you will have gained much more than money could buy- experience!... try to remember- the joy is in the journey...
i say go for it..unless its going to be so far off that it is dangerous. then just give in and build the hull at 100%

there is a big difference between a good design and a good boat. the only way to find out -will be to build it--
remember- on here-we are all "water tribe"...for what its worth- regardless of what happens- you have my support. i hope it goes well...

 

Poor Bert, it was a joke. Sorry for your lake of " lightness in processing"
Next time I will put a warning: Caution, this is a joke
Daniel

 

Good morning, afternoon or evening,

One has to understand that if one is for 3 hours attached to the boat-design.net, and some 20 messages on your own thread comes in, they will only be shown AFTER one has logged out and logged in again. Thus Grant, I trust that you have understanding that I did not reply on your indeed straight forward answers. I hope also that you have read my private reply.

It is easy for me to insult anybody. Absolute no problem in doing something like that, it is easy,. but I prefer to be in the way I have been brought up.

Unfortunately, I have decided to focus my time on the orders I received this week and no longer to spent time on this forum. Regretful, I don’t feel like repeating myself in my broken English, then to get often insulted.

I like to propose a solution for this insult problem. Administrator, here is my proposal.

Have those, who insult, terminated with the message, Pay USA$ 10 into a Sea Rescue Institute or similar organization and I will re-connect you. E-mail us your payment slip.

Even better, let everybody pay a deposit of $ 50 via their credit card, if they want to be connected to this forum, which is refundable upon request (and you will get terminated from this forum) and a small group of people who will judge and dictate whether $5 or $ 25 will be paid to a Sea Rescue Institute. In the event you insult a reader.

I can guarantee you, that this site will be the best site in the world. With people who up to now are too shy to ask questions, incase they get insulted, will suddenly blossom and make this site famous.

Thank you Folks, Many have helped me greatly. Those who have followed the 2 threads from the beginning, will know that I am an electrical/electronics man and after that sailing experience on the Kaag in the Netherlands, there and than I decided to go electric.

Whatever I have done in my life, I made it a success, I am not worried about this endresult of this boat.

Best regards
Bert

 

Good luck Bert!








ps
I pay my annual penalty already here:http://www.dgzrs.de/

 

I didn't see any insult, but I proppose you take you brillant idea on an other forum. They will certainly love it, and it will add an other success to your life

Daniel

 

To the contrary....I'm building an 18 foot multihull from ferro-cement. I have yet to receive any negative feedback on the project here. I would think if this site was flooded with sanctimonious ***@%$# They surly would have had a field day with my thread.

Plus I wouldn't get my panties in a bundle over the negative comments. The main troll here thinks lobster boats are the apex of luxury and design so take it all with a grain of salt.

 

The main Troll as you name him is one of the most respected contributors here. Most of the members do´nt share your negative opinion about him. You would find almost daily a post saying thanks to his helpful hints and advice, but maybe you did not look for positive comments.
And he has build more boats than probably all the others accumulated.

But Never he made such a dumb statement that his lobster style boats (which is not the only, or even the largest of his ranges) are the epitome of luxury and design.
He never made any advertisement here for his products. Quite the opposite, he regularely recommends boats and products which he could sell as well, or better.

Now that you have not received any negative feedback on your thread, you felt it necessary to insult one of the most honorable members here yes?

Sasha

 

I have a few minutes to respond to some replies.

Yes, it is the Hartley plans, excellent plans. Also I love working with wood.

Hi Grant Nelson, The drawings are full size A0 and even bigger full size drawings, thus difficult to put onto the net. And I don’t want to infringe copyright also. Also no VCG etc are available.

To respond on how I calculated the LCG and VCG

I made 6 columns
Column 1 all weights, like 8 longitudinals, hull, cabin, crew, batteries, motors, cabling etc. all in all 29 items for the original 8,5 meter boat and 27 items for the 7,4 meter one.

Then all weight items above base in meters
Column weight of those items in kg x above base = VCG
Then all 0.1 station locations,
Then weight x moment of station = LCG

Thereafter all items added up and divided by 29 for the 8,5 meter original sailing yacht and the second calculation divide by 27 for the 7,4 electric driven vessel.

In view that I still need to reduce some items with lighter weights, I cannot give you the detailed outcome until I am 100% happy with both results.

Hi DennisRB, In short, my wife had an operation 5 days before we flew to overseas last year. She insisted not to cancel the holiday, and during sailing I realized, we were getting too old for handling a sailing boat and sail only with the Mainsail. Not enough hands. That was the moment that I decided as an electrical/electronics man to make a boat with electric motors.

The learning curve and building the boat is more important to me, then actual having a super fast, efficient boat. I enjoy creating and making something usefull.

Hi Tugboat, thanks for your support

Hi Pierre R, also very much appreciated for your input.

Hi Daniel, No I am not a coward and move to another forum.

Bert

 

Who the heck are you talking about?

 

May I place a bet?:?:

http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=11121

is 1+1 = 2 ?:?:

 

Hi Bert, yeah, too bad you can not do this forum in Dutch, as its clear that part of the problem here is indeed a language barrier, something we all to easily forget to take into account.

Can you tell me more about what kind of 'sea' voyages you want to make. This has a pretty big impact on your final design, indeed.

Keep in mind that if you are going to really go across the ocean, as opposed to along the coast, that an electic boat will not give you the range you need, nor the reserve power, for a safe voyage, even with solar panels over the whole boat.

I suspect since you want to downsize the Hartly 28, which was a sailboat, and take the sails and mast off, that that will compensate for any stability loss in reducing the size by 13% overall.

You might also want to consider, rather than using low down weight to create stability, to find enought places to inject foam so she will be unsinkable.


There are more build your own electic boats out there. Here are some:
http://www.cmdboats.com/elec.htm
http://www.electricboats.co.uk/links.html

You should go to the woodenboat forum and ask about designs for electric powerboats. Give them the size you want, the type of voyages, your safty concern, and see what they recommend. For example: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?t=113861&highlight=electric

Just go for it and Good Luck with your project

 

You put word in my mouth I never said. Why should I treat you as a coward?
But I can say that you don't read my posts.
I just said, try your credit card system elswere since here we don't need it.
It was simple.
Daniel

 

hey Bert- i was just curious--since a while back i was possibly needing some lead- where is the best place to get it? how are you planning on getting it?
i was thinking car batteries?/...up here lead is expensive and hard to find now...
cheers