Did a dream got shattered?

You are right, you shouldn't have left the harbour. I would never have done such tricky voyage, if I new that the boat was not made for it. I personally don't like the North Sea, prefer the conditions here more.

every year there are some 1 million vessels going onto the sea with less than 10 meter LWL.
29 feeters, offshore competitions, fishing boats etc.

Richard, I came to the consclusion that your valuable time could be better spent on other threads. You are far too experienced for this small project. Would you have very much objection to skip my thread and allow other people to give me information which allows me to make decisions. If you had said, listen Bert, I skippered last year a 8 meter displacement boat on the North sea and my 12 Hp was battling to get me home. The wind was .... and the waves was ..., that would have helped me.

Bert

 

No Bert, you don´t get the picture. There was nothing wrong with that trip, just conditions changed to uncomfortable. That happens quite often.

Your question is far too broad to be answered in a serious way, hence you did not get one reply with data.

There are more than a million fisher boats below 10m, going out for coastal fishing every day. A high percentage of these fishermen is killed every year, in sight of the homeport or beach.

You are right, I shall leave this place. I cannot confirm your bias, therefore I don´t provide anything good for you.

over and out
Richard

 

Richard on the one hand you tell me that I am a complete idiot in trying to create a reasonable safe environment for myself and on the other hand, you skipper a boat not suitable for the conditions or expected conditions in the Elbe mouth. How can you expect me to trust your inputs?.

I am very pleased that I received in my mail some very good information to go on.

If every boatbuilder has to design his boat to cover every possible risk, no boat would be affordable or light enough to sail. The same in my position. I need to evaluate the risks for what the boat is intended for and build it for that purpose. It will not be made to cross the oceans or cross the Elbe's mouth.

Thank you Richard, much obliged.
Bert

 

Bert,
I have a traditional Swedish (or possibly Finnish) old double-ender. It's 7 m long and I estimate 1.5 tons. The cross-section seen by the headwind would be approximately 4 sqm. The 7 Hp inboard diesel swings a 15" prop. I've not found it to be under-powered, but then I've also managed to avoid any wind conditions worse than a light gale. The problem I’ve had when going into a choppy sea and strong headwind is that the sea will wash over the boat. I don’t expect that more Hp would help this.

Erik

 

Thank you so much. It confirms other replies I had (e-mails) and at the end I have settled for 2 x 3,5 Kw motors, most likely running most of the time at 1,4 Kw. (Although they can produce 6 Kw if neccessary. Only sea trials will confirm this. Rick calculated with a flat sea, which will be very seldom, 1 Kw in total. The sort of conditions you mention, is the type I will most of the time experience and need some more power then 1 Kw to reach maximum hull speed with this design. I appreciate your input. Most of them mentioned, should I truly run into problems, change direction, go back or seek shelter untill conditions are favourable again. Everybody thinks that I am going hunderds of miles onto the sea, I am only planning a few miles offshore, 5, 6 miles at the most. I am not a fisherman and thus do not need to go far out.
Thanks.
Bert

 

How much will the batteries weigh that will produce 7kw for the say 5 hours needed to get home into a gale?

 

Only when you don´t falsify my comments, you get rid of me!

 

Richard,

I thought you agreed to leave this thread.

Why do you persist like a child?

Surely your talents can be put to better use elsewhere, this you already agreed to.

Remember?

-Tom

Edit: Apex has docked points from me for allegedly "miss-quoting " him.

 

Hi Dennis,
First at all, I probably would not have been far enough from base to pick up the gale. Long before the barometer has dropped far enough, I will have made the right decision. Probably you haven't read all the threads. The 25Kwh avialable to me is less than 500 Kg. I would have long before already have raised the storm sail and made a decision at that point of time. I cannot tell you what decision, as it may never happen or is highly theoretical. as I may not go further than 5 seamiles. I am not planning to get into a discussion about all possible situations. A whale may be hitting my boat. A submarine may shave my belly. I may hit a iceberg, in view that the mosambique warm current has changed. Must I now start being worried about all those problems?
I am delighted that I received answers on critical questions I had. This site has given me an absolute pleasure. People like Jeremy, Rick, Vic, CDK, Erik and a lot more, have given me good and precise answers. but some are dead wood. I am going to be busy far too much, to carry on again with this forum. I sign off and good luck with people such as a most irritating person , who has the pleasure in waiting for a moment to bash and submit ridicules low class replies to various threads from other enquirers. I did a trace on this man. He is not worth it.
Thank you all.
Good luck to all of you,
Bert

 

Hi BertKu,

I have just run across an organization in California that may be able to help you with your power calculations. It is a small startup getting into the green repowering arena.

www.greenmarinerepower.org

I currently have no affiliation with them, but they seem to be on the right track.

We are exploring the possibility of refitting our tired Perkins with a newer diesel/electric hybrid installation.

Now let's get the fine print out of the way.

To: Any and all professional builders and designers that have preconceived notions, and/or not willing to consider any other options, still convinced that the world is flat, the sun orbits the earth etc.... - I am no longer interested in your input.

 

Thank you Darr,
Via this website I found some other very interresting sites which only deals with electric propelled boats.
Thanks
Bert

 

Excuse me please, that was a mistake! I meant to give feedback to Bert for misquoting! (I will repair that asap)

 

Apex,

Apology accepted.

Now how about those points back...

-Tom

 

Hey Bert --how goes your build?/..keep me updated..hope all is going well....never forget to trust your own judgement...

are you going to build it 13% reduced still?..if so..and please pardon my ignorance since i just ddnt have time to read the 11 pages of your thread-but what made you arrive at 13% as your figure?? just very curious...

peace

 

Good morning Tugboat,
Nice to see that Rick Willoughby is back with some inputs to other threads. I always enjoyed his gentleman replies. Rick I promise you, I will not mess your threads up anymore.
Tugboat, you want to know how far I am. I like to come clean with your guys. Any hobby cost money, a golfer spent it on caddies, good quality clubs, membership fees etc. He not necessarily becomes the best golfer in the world, but he is happy. In my case my hobby is to experiment and make something different and even if it is a disaster. I had fun and learned.
15 years ago I developed an electronic wireless timer for the horsy people. At that time they told me also that I was absolute a nut and it could not be done properly with interferences in the air etc. The first one was a disaster. The second one I sold and exported to Holland and it was up to 2 years ago still fully in use, until they burned the system out. I improved and improved and the last one I sold again to the same club. Many timers are now in use overseas, Norway , Sweden, Holland, Mauritius etc and because others have copied me, I have now redirected my energy to an offshore electric boat as from the 3rd of October 2010.
After Tom warned me, Murielle from Canada has given me the best reply and I have read it probably some 20 – 30 times and tried to grasp what she is real thinking, for me to learn from. I have in the meantime spoken to lots of people, lots of experts and have decided to take my chances. If it is a “dud” it can’t be that bad, I had fun and all hobbies cost money. I have to spent then more to make the corrections. So what, I can’t take money into my grave, they will steal it.
Yes, Tugboat to answer your question, I am reducing it by 13%. The beam will be then just below 2 meter 50 cm and it will become trail able. Yes Murielle I did listen to you, but spoke to experts and got on idée’s on how to make the corrections. I am not going at present into a discussion on those points. Your information was of great value.
I turned yesterday 70, I am in good health and this project will take me 2 – 3 years and I have first started with the power train and electric motors.
As an experiment, I like to build the motors into the rudders, which I am planning to have in the two keels under the boat. Murielle to ensure proper primary stability, I may have to build a third keel, but a retracting keel, needed when I have a small emergency sail raised.
But I have lots of questions like:
will the transformer oil in the rudder be approx. the same as for the prescribed Mineral Oil: Energol GR-XP 220 from BP USA$ 300 gear set I bought. Or will the prescribed oil also cool my motor and not eat my shellac layer from my copper wire.
If I have the rudders just at the end of the keel, will that be sufficient steering, when sailing with a small emergency sail. Time will learn
Can I turn the rudders in the middle of the rudder or must it be at the end of the rudder, for motoring this is no problem, but with a small sail, it could be problem and in that case I need to make and lower a normal rudder at the back.
As soon the engineering shop has my prop shaft finished with some additional parts, I can start doing some experiments. The prop will be 2 blade prop.
Any experts on oils under us? Tugboat does that answer your question? Bert