diagonal planking

points well taken
they were lightly built for pleasure cruising in protected waters
but they sure looked good doing it
as for my redesign
the construction is going to be vastly stronger as are the windows
but whats up with the motion you mentioned and how would you fix it
I was thinking of bilge keels
the elco's do not have flat bottoms or at least not the one I have lines for
Im planning on getting an architect eventually although having been a builder for years and always drawn my own I have a natural aversion to there whole species.
sounds like I might concentrate on redesigning the under body some

the 57 is way to pretty of a boat to let slide simply because a problem that was known and could have been corrected, wasn't.

the one you built was a consolidated about 60'
was it anything like the MS Scarlet



cause that one definitely had a flat bottom and just looks like it would have a horrible motion in open water and obviously has dangerously to much window area for the open ocean
let me go look up what boat you worked on maybe I can find some pictures and compare them to what Im up to
thanks
B

 

I read the account of Gen. Douglas McCarthur's ride to Australia from the Phillipines on a PT Boat.
That should tell you all you need to know about the differences between a boat that can go out on the ocean, and an ocean capeble boat!

 

the pt boats were elco's first stab at a planing hull with huge engines
this thing is a semi displacement hull with moderate engines
I was kicking around the idea of bilge keels so I could sit flat on a low tide if the occasion or error occurred
seems these would also help in reducing roll
?

 

In AK (and other places) they have large skegs that will support the weight of a boat if you must beach.
I doubt two big skegs will cost you much in energy, and would be a big help in going over obstructions and beaching.

They probably would help in reducing roll. I think that because going diagonally across swells is a problem with those big keels. The boat just dont want to turn quickly. That makes me think the Roll rate would be affected by the resistanc to the roll.

 

thats it, mohican in the picture, look at classic boats, on the net

 

Bos. why not put a full V hull on it with a large skeg and the driveshaft comes out of the skeg. The side profile would not have to change a bit nor the topsides. I'm sure you can draw that out W/O a problem then somebody here could proof your drawing. I know that it is easy to overbuild, however, someone with an NA after their name could check your numbers and check frame sizing and spans and stringer sizing and number of. Lot easier to look at a drawing that has deminsions on it and it could be single lined. Best, Stan If you are going 16"-24" O.C. framing my guess is (IN NOMINAL DEMINSIONS)
Bottom frames 2 x 8s, Side frames 2 x 6s. keel laminated 4,5" x 6"or 8" with a top layer of 3/4" plywood. Stringers a full 1-1/4"
thickness. I believe in lots of stringers. That way you do not screw the siding into frames. http://www.specialtywoods.net/lumber.html
This boat is a proven ocean crossed. You could use the bottom plan for your boat.http://dieselducks.com/Duck462study1.html

 

thanks Ras I did find were I had that link noted

I certainly could easily put a full v on her
something I would like to consider first thought is a pair of bilge keels
that would dampen roll well but might actually detract from speed
would be nice to land on a beach ( deliberately or accidentally ) and not damage anything

thing about the v bottom is that it is easy on lumber in that clear shorter pieces are easier to find and in the end cheaper than clear longer pieces so its got a practical appeal to it

not likely to use framing lumber though as I want rot resistance but in order to use materials efficiently a standard lay out of 16" oc seems convenient
also Im concentrating weight into the structural components and reducing the area and mass of the interior wall treatments
also am working on shifting the VCG lower than in the original

 

Here is another hull to look at. Has lots of ocean time read owners blurp. Also has a complete lumber list and study plans for $15.00 https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=400 The lumber list gives you sizes of members and quantities and has been quite accurate. Here are some build pics http://www.glen-l.com/picboards/picboard13/pic675a.html For ocean going I would want a deep bulbous forefoot with reverse curve at the chine.

 

Just looking at a nice boat like that makes me drool. Some time ago, I'd have given a body part to live in that thing and have the money to move it to whereever....
Get it done while you can!

 

"they were lightly built for pleasure cruising in protected waters
but they sure looked good doing it
as for my redesign
the construction is going to be vastly stronger as are the windows
but whats up with the motion you mentioned and how would you fix it
I was thinking of bilge keels
the elco's do not have flat bottoms or at least not the one I have lines for
Im planning on getting an architect eventually although having been a builder for years and always drawn my own I have a natural aversion to there whole species.
sounds like I might concentrate on redesigning the under body some "

here we go again......" I am building this lovely design because I love it",,,,,,,wait, now I might just change this, and that, and alter the keel, and redesign th underbody........

Now Boston, be real mate, you like the basic look of the boat, yep she is pretty....so now lets all change everything.......that is what I mean by building a "good" design in the first place.....build the design that suits your purpose, don't waste time trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

Remarkably intelligent commentary. Very clever, surely the result of years of hard learning.

It would last less than one second, other yachts would last the same. In the same vein of commentaries I add that I do not know yachts that resist to:
- 1/2" machine gun with armored bullets.
- 110 mm anti tank cannon
- 300 pounds mine.

To say something a bit more intelligent; the epoxy/biaxial/strip plank method gives very strong boats, some have more than 30 years now, so it's a proven method.
The main interest of the method that it uses common materials at decent price, not requires high skills, and can be achieved in a reasonable amount of time.
For any educated people about strength of materials, the method appears as very interesting and the refinement of this method invented by Mr Lord gives among the best high speed boats (I'm talking of 60 knots) without going to high cost composites.

 

Thanks Ilan, I was not even going to bother with the comment he made......

 

You're wellcome.

Even if you have an aversion for the N.A. (I understand as so many of so called yacht designers look to me as a monkey with a razor at the hand. ie dangerous animal), some N.A know their job and a good set of plans and well done engineering is a good investment

It's funny that very few people try to design a car (as too complicated) and so many people feel able to design an ocean going boat costing a big bunch of dollars.

 

I thought the name of this page was BOAT DESIGN

nothing wrong with starting with a beautiful old design and bringing it up to speed
you have to admit that old boats got appeal

cant tell you how many times Ive gotten a fistful of pictures from a customer who wanted a house to include all these design elements, well Ild tell them,"as long as one element is conducive to the value of another we can start pasting things together and before you know it", I can give them a traditional design with modern appeal. Ive done it with houses right and left and now Im going to apply the same skill to bringing a really sweet old boat design back to life and at the same time, improve on it.

one reason I gave up on the Sophia Christina was because the design was not tolerant of change, basically the boat was already the perfect answer to bringing an old pilot schooner up to speed, exactly as you suggest but, it was not possible to really make it a nice comfy live aboard so I moved on, using the same logic your suggesting. This design on the other hand does seem to lend itself to change easily in order to bring it up to speed.

Ive looked at modern designed yachts and they look like space ships instead of yachts, some architects attempt to create a name for himself rather than create something that shows a little class.

I want the level of class and craftsmanship so often exhibited in the past combined with the level of knowledge gained and the advantages that knowledge may afford, it takes an open mind, the ability to admit your wrong about something and the ability to move on to whats right with out beating yourself up to much about the change.

its profits and business catering to a lack of skills that has killed the old craftsmen and replaced them with a bunch of stoned glue sniffers unable to perform at a level necessary for the kind of work I intend to exemplify in this build. each piece of wood will be carefully selected for its intended placement and each joint will be a masterpiece in itself well able to tolerate the scrutiny of any knowledgeable craftsman, you completely misread me if you think Im going to do something because its easy. Ive spent a lifetime working up the skills needed for this build and I intend to use em to my best advantage, asking the design to rise to the occasion rather than reduce the quality to some apprentice level of simplicity is not conducive to the kind of artistic expression Im after and will not be a consideration in my overall plan for what will end up being my home.

that said Id be willing to look at whatever you might suggest
but if its anything thats all that proud of a potential 30 year life span when life spans of several hundred years where common to the old school builders then Ill probably just be looking at the hull form and how I may apply it to the elco rather than be convinced it is capable of being any kind of legacy.

I hear what your saying
but show me a boat designed to modern standards that matches in style and grace what those old commuters and Chesapeake Bay boats did
then you will have all my attention
Ive looked and been sorely disappointed at the lack of taste exhibited in modern motor yacht design

 

Boston, Thanks for you reply, and I understand your plight, it is not meant to be personally critical of you, but more of a generalisation of design and builders.

No point me posting 1001 different designs for you mate, I do not know what is in the melon for whatyou want to see.

Point is, now you can grasp why we have able Boat Designers (NA), they can note down your requirements, and crate what you want...just don't alter what they do, or you loose the plot....much like what is happening now.

Sorry if i do not write what i think very well, I am not a writer, just a dumb boatbuilder.

All the best in whatever you do anyhow, I really mean that, I am sure it will be a great creation, as you are prepared to see others ideas and think about it.