Desperate to sail

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by laukejas, Jul 28, 2013.

  1. messabout
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    messabout Senior Member

    I think that Laukejas has gotten to us. His sheer determination is more than admirable.

    I have so many excess tools, that I will never use, that I'd be pleased to send them to him as a gift. Unfortuneately the cost of shipping to Lithuania would be more than the cost of new tools. Besides it might take a long time to get them there at which time the Baltic may be frozen over.

    Is there any way we can help him beyond the good and thoughtful council that has already been posted?
     
  2. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    I was thinking about that myself.

    It would be nice to stop by and see him on my way back to Ukraine in 2 months and deliver some tools.

    At least a battery powered drill and some bits.

    :)

    A carbon fiber mast will not fit in luggage.
     
  3. laukejas
    Joined: Feb 2012
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    laukejas Senior Member

    Sir... Thank you, both of you, but really it isn't necessary. You have already done more than enough to help me. I value knowledge and experience. Sharing that experience ensures that others don't have to go through the same mistakes. You can't find everything in books - that's why I really appreciate your help and advice. Yeah, truth is, that right now, I'm a poor student who can't buy his own sailboat or even tools to make it, but soon I'll find a full time job, and then these problems will be solved. I guess this kind of experience - doing something with almost nothing - teaches to value things that later come without effort. Also, through mistakes and hard work you can understand these principles of the sailboat, see what works and what doesn't. I think it's way better than to get everything "one the plate" from the start.
    And I'm thankful for that you value my determination and efforts. It's really something to have people that believe in you - for example, my family, which watches my attempts to make this sailboat, just laugh and say that I'll capsize on the shore.

    I remember a joke we created when last year I was making my catamaran:

    It is generally assumed that rats abandon sinking ship - it is good indication if the ship will actually sink. So, when making ships, I invented a "rat test" - put a rat on the boat that was just built, and see if it tries to run (just an idea, never actually tried it - didn't see any rats in 100m radius from my boat). My parents said that if I tried that "rat test" on my catamaran, best case scenario - rat would die fighting rather to step in it; worst case scenario - chew through the hull and sink it :D
    Also, it is in best maritime traditions that captain leaves his sinking ship last, or goes down with it. Then I thought - what if captain has a pet rat? Would that rat leave ship last also, only when other rats have escaped? :D


    Okay, so here's the news: I rigged the ship this morning (just took half an hour). Mast step holds firm and strong. I wouldn't risk raising sail without stays, but it holds firm enough for me to tension them.

    Sail looks and performs beautiful. I'm lucky that without the boom, sheet goes along the CoE-clew line, result is perfect sail shape, with no twisting, wrinkles, etc. Even with these 3.12m^2, it has so much power, that in few gusts, boat launched forward with such force, that the water started to rush loudly at the bow, and I almost fell of my seat.

    Problem is... There was no wind today. I should have expected it - when boat is not ready, there is a fine, steady breeze. When boat is rigged to sail - water is like a mirror. I spent 2 hours rowing through the lake, searching, but... "As idle as a painted ship upon a painted ocean", Samuel Taylor would say.

    Also, there are still some problems with the boat. While mast and sail is perfect, in these few gusts I saw that boat is drifting heavily, making speed, but not to windward. I'm starting to fear that leeboards are too small. I'll attempt to improve them, to stand more firm beside the hull, since now they still move around.
    And that damn rudder. It takes maybe around 3-4 minutes to lash the oar to the hull, and still it doesn't hold firm. If there were some heavy winds, in 3 minutes boat can drift a lot of distance. I'll start making some improvised rudder socket - maybe it will lash easier, allowing to set in the rudder in seconds.

    So, still some work to do - but a lot of things are solved and work better than expected.

    I'm attaching 5 photos, still ashore. Leeboards aren't in their places yet, because it's too shallow. In the second photo you may see that I decided to move stays lower - it'll improve their angle, so I don't have to tension them too hard, and since sail isn't raised, but tied around the mast, it doesn't interfere with anything. Also, I found I actually have some hardware, leftover from the catamaran, so I used it for rigging and mast step.

    In the 4th photo, please admire that mast step (took some 5 hours to make it) - just a few wooden blocks (made from logs), and some metal plates. It is very strong, and it's lashed to the seat, while the lower part rests on the floor.
    In the last photo you may see leeboards more closely, and the rudder (as I said, I found out it doesn't work as expected yet).

    I'm continue to work on improvements.

    P.S. oh, and don't mind that little board at the stern with black thing attached to it - that is sonar radar my father uses for fishing, and that board is way too weak to attach rudder to it.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    You're getting there. I hope there's someone around to hand the camera to when you finally get everything together and have a good breeze, because we all want to see pictures of you sailing. :)

    add: I'm impressed with your command of English. Much of the time, you sound like it's your first language. May I ask how you learned it?
     
  5. laukejas
    Joined: Feb 2012
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    laukejas Senior Member

    Or even a video. That's possible also. But as for pictures, I can promise.

    By the way, I red many knot books (and practiced too), but I have yet to find a knot that is possible to tie when line is under high tension, without releasing any of that tension. Does anyone know any such knot? Two end joining, or to a ring? It would be very useful for stays. Right now I have to use pulley system to reduce tension to a level where I knot a clove hitch with one hand. Is there any knot that can be tied with line under high tension, or tied and then tensioned, without giving back, like a clamp?
     
  6. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    I'm not sure how you'd keep 'high' tension on a line while tying a knot in it, since you usually need some slack at the point where you're doing the tying.

    Try googling 'trucker's hitch;' there are a lot of variations. With the one I use, I can keep enough tension on the line above the knot with one hand to at least avoid slack, while I'm tying below that with the other hand. Of course I've had a lot of practice; I drove a flat-bed delivery truck for a couple of years.

    It's the sort of thing I could show you in 30 seconds, but can't really explain in words without almost writing a book....
     
  7. messabout
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    messabout Senior Member

    Troy is right about the truckers hitch. It is also called a "hay hitch" in some locations. You can use it to put a lot of tension in a line and then secure it without losing the tension. Also if correctly done, it can be undone in a split second. I use it to hold my small skiff on its trailer rather than fool with ratcheting straps. It is reliable. It is useful for many other applications that do not involve sailboat shrouds as well.

    If you can not find this in one of your knot books, I will try to take some pictures to show how it is done. Troy Is right that it would take a lot of explaining if done only with text. And yes you can do it in 30 seconds. It only involves a chicken head loop which becomes a deadeye, and a partial half hitch. I assure that you can tighten the rope enough to break something.

    Laukejas, Keep up the good work. What you are doing may be difficult under the circumstances but it is not impossible. Try to be understanding of those who are not encouraging you. They probably mean well, but simply do not have your passion for an endeavor like this.
     
  8. laukejas
    Joined: Feb 2012
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    laukejas Senior Member

    Truckers hitch, yes. I know it, used several times. If you take a look at the shrouds at the first photo, you will see that I used similar thing - just a figure eight or alpine butterfly (preferable) for the tension loop. So it's a different thing, but works on the same principle. But it isn't exactly a tension knot - it is just the same pulley system without the pulley, with higher friction. Sure, friction helps with tying the knot, but there are problems associated with this knot. I just hoped that there is some better way - because sometimes there isn't enough rope for this arrangement, or it is very uncomfortable to tie (small diameter ropes, complicated access, or it needs to be tied quickly).
    Halyard is good example. You raise the sail, and you need to fix the line somewhere - to another rope, or some ring, or something. Of course, it is possible to run that halyard through various turns to add friction until it is easy enough to tie the knot - but it is complicated and takes a long time. Isn't there a knot which could be used for this - clamp tensioned line like with this (lower left corner) or this ?
    You know, knot-variant of cleat?

    I now start thinking that maybe these high aspect ratio leeboards wasn't such a good idea. As far as I know, low aspect ratio boards work more by simple sideways resistance, so, independent of speed, while high aspect ratio boards work better in high speeds, because they work more like a wing due to high waterflow - so they are not as effective in low speeds.
    Problem is, that I'm afraid that in low speeds (light wind), I won't be able to make it upwind due to drift. Right now, total leeboard area is 7.7% of the sail area, while minimum is 3.5%. So, even if only one leeboard would function properly, it would still be way above the minimum. Nethertheless, the boat drifts.
    Can anyone suggest anything? How do I fight drift when there isn't enough wind to gain reasonable speed? I'm sure I'm not overtrimming, and I try to gain speed on halfwind before starting to reach.

    Do professional-built yachts also experience this problem, being unable to make it to upwind in light winds?
     
  9. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    There is such a knot. It is called a tent hitch. Using a second piece of rope, tie the tent hitch to the taut line and pull it tight from the other end and tie it off. Once that is done you will be able to adjust the now slack original end of the rope. I will try to make an illustration tomorrow.
     
  10. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Attached Files:

  11. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

  12. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Not having the knot of the smaller rope on a bight, but tied directly to the larger rope will allow the larger rope to remain taut on the standing end while the loose end of the larger rope is adjusted.
     
  13. laukejas
    Joined: Feb 2012
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    laukejas Senior Member

    Thank you, I'll try that one.

    Well, today I had a good breeze, and first attempt to sail showed me that boat is very unbalanced - no matter what I did, I couldn't turn towards the wind. So I moved the mast step to the other side of the seat, so that CoE would also move back. After that, balance is near perfect. However, I'll have to make a boom now, since I can't flatten sail enough with this new position.

    The main problem is still that drift. I managed to fix leeboards so tight that they stay in right orientation on both tacks, meaning that they both work all the time. And still, in low speed, boat drifts heavily, and I can't make it upwind. Please help me out here, what am I doing wrong? Leeboard shape is like an airfoil, so, very little drag, total area is more than twice above minimum, it stays in correct orientation. What is here to blame? I think that boat hull, since it is flat-bottom, designed to plane rather than to sail, and has very little lateral resistance. But I can't do anything about it. Why those leeboards don't work?

    I just hope that this is problem with sail - too much drag, too little lift. If yes, than making a boom will correct this problem. If not - I'll have to give up. I don't know what else to do to fix the drift problem.

    If anyone has any advice on this, now is the time...
     
  14. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Use flat plates instead of airfoil-shaped leeboards. At very low speeds the flow around your boards is laminar and separates (detaches) very easily from their surface, i.e. the keel stalls and gives very little lift. In that condition, a flat plate will behave much better than an airfoil-shaped keel.

    If you don't want to redo the leeboards from scratch, you can create a sort of vortex generators along the leading edge, by engraving a series of V notches all along the length of the blade. Basically, you want to emulate this: http://www.gizmag.com/whale-inspired-bumps-improve-efficiency-of-ocean-turbine-blades/17094/ and: http://www.asknature.org/strategy/3f2fb504a0cd000eae85d5dcc4915dd4
    Or, you can try to emulate airplane-style vortex generators, with (for example) a series of closely-spaced protruding nails placed along the whole length of the leading edge:
    http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/aerodynamics/q0009.shtml

    By "leading edge", I mean the point indicated by the blue arrow in this pic:
    LE.jpg

    The boom will also help you a lots, because right now your sail is aerodynamically very inefficient (little lift, a lots of drag - which translates into a low drive and high side force).

    Cheers
     

  15. laukejas
    Joined: Feb 2012
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    laukejas Senior Member

    Thank you for these leeboard ideas. Certainly looks interesting, but since this whole project is very crude, I don't think it will affect much. Well, my leeboards aren't exactly like an airfoil, not NACA profiles - just rounded leading edge and sharpened trailing edge. 6/10 of the cord is flat plank. By the way, I never noticed these V notches or vortex generators on sailboat keels - how come, if it so efficient method of keeping the flow in low speeds with no side effects in high speeds?

    I made a boom with clew tension line to control fullness of the sail.

    Well, I think I had done everything I can with this sailboat with the tools, materials and knowledge I have this day. I don't see any possible major improvement. All is done. Now I just have to wait for stronger wind (I think at least force 3 will be needed to sail upwind), and then I'll see if all this was worth the effort. Total building time, I calculated, was about 30-40 man hours. If this works, I'll have a sailboat not only for this summer, but for more summers to come, until I can buy or build normal sailboat. If not, well... I think I haven't forgotten the hangman's noose :D
     
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