designing a fast rowboat

Don't get Rick Willoughby started. He's already got one world record with his pedal powered designs. We get him fired up, who knows where we'll end up (very nice guy who sent me a very nice email and from whom I've learned a lot).

Well, I'm confused that you're confused. Look, I have a high-end (but not ultimate) racing road bicycle. It's the product of racing design, large diameter rigid aluminum frame, is light, and perfectly fits my skeleton, ergonomically speaking. I make a few ergo modifications to lift riding position up out of a racer's crouch and increase comfort, and I have a bike I can ride quickly, easily, and enjoy the simple beautiful engineering. I cruise past 98% of other bikes on the road. It's a pleasure to use, and a pleasure to own, and a pleasure to know that there's very little improvement that could be found in the design or engineering. The gearing is perfect. I use it for fun and light exercise, for long distances, but I don't race and have no intention to push myself the way racers do. I never work so hard I'm not having fun (or let's say there's a pulse rate above which I don't go). Racer's gearing and frames are tuned to pulse rates and requirements different from mine.

I'd like the equivalent of my bicycle in a boat that I build myself. Simple as that. The dilemma in hull shape is compromises for conditions, but that's inherent with boat design. But the frame is actually very much like bicycles in that it has to transmit human power to the water, so it needs to be rigid and the ergonomics need to be tuned to the user's requirements. On a rowboat frame, to me where you start is with spread.

*Edit: An even simpler explanation would be that I take pleasure in owning and using things that are as close to perfect as possible. As would anyone. And that sentiment gets much stronger if I don't buy something but build it myself.

 

Sorry for the confusion. Dick Dreissigacker, one of the brothers who founded Concept2 (an oarmaking company) sent me an informative and helpful email within hours of your post #1005, and I made the mistake of thinking you were the same person. Had you been, you would obviously have the resources to have any kind of oar you wanted.

 

I don't think I gave a strong enough recommendation to this article by Nick Newland at DuckWorks magazine. A really great overview of boat design for anyone who may be new to this forum, to this thread, and who's looking for an excellent place to start.

Design of Seagoing Rowing Boats:
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/03/r/articles/rowing/index.htm

 

I have 2 boats that are close in size. I designed and built the plywood canoe myself and I bought the kayak which is a half a foot longer. Their hull shapes are very different; the canoe is hard chine with very fine entry and exit, the kayak is almost semi-circular, narrower at midships with more end buoyancy. I paddle with a friend of similar age to myself, neither of us young or in good shape, both with arthritis, so performance is not an issue with either of us.

Whenever we cruise together the guy in the kayak has to work harder and the guy in the canoe is basically loafing; the difference is very noticeable. If it comes to a race however, the kayak creeps ahead every time no matter who is paddling which boat. Clearly the drag vs speed curves are very different and the boat with the lowest overall drag is not the faster of the two.

I agree with the idea of wanting the best you can have, but boats and bikes do not behave the same. The best boat is the one that is best for what you want to do with it, not one that's the fastest when some other guy paddles it in different circumstances.

 

He's in Morrisville, I'm in Middlebury 60 miles south...

 

Terry, the description of your canoe sounds like what I'm looking for: a fast loafing (row)boat.

 

"seems to remind me of the Herreshoff/Gardner row boat, which has a very good reputation. i also have a copy of Steevers book,, I am looking to make a pair of oars myself, and am trying to source wood in my country, i'd be interested to know what weight your oars finish at?"

Mike: Absolutely right on Herreshoff. I was inspired by his original 1947 Rudder lines.
I sort of winged it from that and Norwegian faerings so I don't want to claim it's authentic anything. Gardner's interpretation was symmetrical, Herreshoff more swedeform.
Boat weighs 85lbs. Both oars with all the lead and steel weigh 10 lbs. Heavy, but I like them. I used acer rubris, a local wood. Black Cherry and Ash have similar spring.

 

I don't know how the design of a canoe would translate into a rowboat with similar characteristics. Dora was one of a series of canoes which I am still developing, primarily for the purpose of exploring different building techniques. You are welcome to use the design any way you see fit, the FreeShip file is attached and the story of her build is at http://theancientkayaker.weebly.com/

Dora's purpose was to explore the potential of sheer plank developments with straight bottom edges, and to minimise the building forms during construction. The low energy aspect of her performance is a boon in old age!

 

the perfect boat?

Dear nordvindcrew,
Once again, I have to thank you for the inspiration. This site should hand out medals once-in-awhile for guys like you that tie so many different people and ideas together. Hope your brother is doing OK. Whats the latest on your boat? Thwarts lowered, are you now throwing up a rooster-tail? When is the next race? I have really enjoyed the latest posts, and have to agree with you, Just get out and row something. Learn, enjoy, make some changes, row some more, learn something, build another boat. Meet a few more rowers, try on their boats....quit stressing and it yer bum wet. I have finished the Mandarin 17,and am planning on a launching party as soon as my daughter gets home from Texas State U. Two more weeks....Maybe she could skip a final? I want to get this thing wet. This last weekend I entered "Two of Heart" in the local Keels and Wheels Concours, and took home a best in class bowl that will easily accomodate a case of cold corona! Weird event, rowboats end-up in the custom category, the second place boat was a 37' hand built Italian motor launch...I am hoping to bribe, beg, cahole, heck, I might even do the dishes if I can get my wife to let me go the the Mystic boat show this year. You and Mr. Chase seem to be somewhere around there. Might there be a chance for folks to meet you guys, and maybe even try on a few boats? Are there boats available at the museum, or anywhere near there for (cheap) rent rowing?

 

I can't see your reasoning here. Perhaps you could explain. As I understand it, by "reverse chine" we are talking about how the chine line drops towards the ends of the boat in profile. That doesn't necessarily have any effect whatsoever on waterline beam. You could draw the boat with any waterline beam you like and with any chine profile that you like. It's purely a matter of how wide you want to make it.

If you are saying that, for a given beam at the chine, raising the chine further above the waterline will reduce the waterline beam then yes, that makes sense. You could still do that with a chine that was straight in profile or raised towards the ends in profile. It's nothing to do with a reverse chine as such. It's midship section shape.

You can sort that easily enough simply by increasing the gearing to weight the handles to whatever level you want to pull. Get a fast boat and get more whoosh for each stroke.

 

chine logs

I see your point on hull design. On Last Chance, the chines arch up and in thus keeping the waterline narrower. just designing it in with normal chines would be the way most would choose. The amount of reverse is quite extreme and results in a very different looking hull. When you see it in the water, the narrowing effect is easily seen. I'll have to conceed that without seeing a drawing of sections that it could be an optical illusion.

 

catching up

The Nordfiord is progressing slowly. Still fairing when temperatures permit and getting parts ready to drop the thwarts. Brother Dave is healing well. Still no where like full motion in his left hand but we were able to get out last Sunday and do about 4 miles. May 22nd is the Merrimac River Race, June 5th is Buzzards bay row amd then the Essex River race later in June. I'll do at least one and am trying to motivate Dave to do another. To dcnblues, OK I get it youhave a personality that need to do the route you have chosen, Enjoy what ever you come up with. The sliding seat members certainly can help you more than I can. While I started this thread to be primarily about fixed seat oar on gunnel but I know that there is much to be gleaned from the more high tech side of the sport. No prejudice, just preferance.

 

It produces a hull that is more easily built using plywood than most. I have doubts about the hydrodynamic effect but very little of the chine is actually immersed. I cannot find an image . . .

 

Hi Nordvin, dont feel that the sliding seat guys are something different , and with it, from a hightec point of view,, This development ,that guys like leo Lazauskas have put in a huge amount of energy , skill , and knowledge , is all driven by the main manufacturers, and the chosen clients, , mostly young athletes and wealthy older guys, all of whom are just having fun like the rest of us.
Anyone who rows 28 miles in 5 h 45 ,, thats 44 kms in 345 minutes,or something like 7 mins a km, is doing fantastically well. on a fixed seat as well.
I have a friend who treats his 11 ft rowing dingy just like his keel boat ,, ( he's been around the world at least twice) its left on the side of the jetty , and he out every morning for an hours rowing,. he's in his 70's his neighbors on the marina think he's nuts. But he's just having fun like the rest of us,
Its not about winning races, having the best, or spending the most , its about rowing, rowing boats , and having fun the way it pleases you, and very often how it pleases your pocket.
Mike

 

Well said. And as I said, I'm hugely grateful for this thread, and for your openness to other concepts. I actually came here with the idea of a Rocat-like catamaran. Rick Willoughby's posts and links made clear the disadvantages of a cat, and for a while I seriously considered a pedal design. I've even been out on a test paddle of the hobie miragedrive, and liked it a lot.

At the back of my head is a plan to build a rowboat that would be fast, easy, and beautiful for calm water, and then a second boat that would be good for just about any sea state (I'm thinking a shorter, wider beamed, reclined and comfy, enclosed like a kayak, mirage-drive powered beast).

This thread got me too hooked on the beauty of fast rowboats. Go figure.