designing a fast rowboat

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by nordvindcrew, Oct 13, 2006.

  1. Tallman
    Joined: Jun 2011
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    Location: Los Angeles

    Tallman Junior Member

    If you've fished from a kayak, then pretty much all of these will be at least as high or higher. In the U.S. "open water" is a vague term that means not flat water (as in racing shells) more than it connotes the ability to handle occasionally serious seas that make you wish you'd updated your will. The Expedition Wherry looks like it's more stable than I realized with oars shipped, so that may work if you have an aggressive bailing system for waves breaking into it. On the website, the "main gallery" has a picture (#12) which is what many would call "open water" -- lighter than the 3-4 foot seas you mentioned. I row in the Firefly in Santa Monica Bay and the CLC boat would be a bit minimal for me for the conditions there, in terms of comfort and safety margin. But it may work for you. Another in the same general area is the Noank Pulling Boat by Nick Schade -- strip built -- I think he sells plans and kits. Newfound Woodworks also sells plans for some nice boats that can work for you -- mostly fixed seat, but plenty fast and used for large freshwater trolling in lakes with sizable waves. I built a strip double using red cedar up to the waterline and paulownia up to the sheer (where cedar can be used for the last few levels also) -- it's light and with fiberglass on both sides, very strong. For some reason I think paulownia is pretty available down under.

    As far as fixed versus sliding seat, the general belief is that boats under 16' long waterline (not overall length) are no faster with sliding seat but may allow you to row for longer (depending on conditioning). Narrower waterline beam aids speed, of course, and a flare to wider gunwales aids stability for your water.

    Given your need for lockers and such, which would have to be custom created for many of these designs, the expedition Wherry may be the ticket. Alternatively, in something like Drake, you could just strap a cooler to the bottom or a thwart.
     
  2. IronPrice
    Joined: Jul 2017
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    Location: NZ

    IronPrice Senior Member

    Thanks Tallman. Photo #12 as you say looks calm to me. It depicts about a 7 knot breeze, not the 15 knot worst case scenario for me to be out in.

    I wouldn't need to ship oars in a sea, shipping oars would only be required when fishing and I'd only be fishing in calm conditions. At the first sign of a sea breeze I'd be reeling in lures ad pulling for home.

    The height thing is interesting. With modern fishing rods the angler needs to avoid two things while the rod is loaded uo. Firstly high sticking (lifting the rod angle too high), second touching the rod to any hard edge. Either can result in spectacular failure of a carbon rod. What that really means is the fisher doesn't want to be sitting too low relative to the gunwales.

    Regarding bailing I'd make a cockpit sump for a bilge pump. I'd planned to have 12V on-board any way for a chart-plotter and VHF.

    I'll have look at those other designs.

    Strip materials are limited here in NZ. Pauwlonia is available here but only in larger profiles (e.g. 4" x 2") so would have to be ripped two ways. Western red cedar seems to be available in 3/4" square or 3/4" boards that could be ripped into strips. Stitch and glue ply would be much easier would be much easier.

    Anyway I appreciate your advice. Lots to think about.
     
  3. Tallman
    Joined: Jun 2011
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    Tallman Junior Member

    Oh --and one more -- the Angus Rowboats Expedition model -- or one of their others. They do plans, and they are built of plywood.
     
  4. IronPrice
    Joined: Jul 2017
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    Location: NZ

    IronPrice Senior Member

    What do you think of Angus Rowboats' Oxford Wherry?
     
  5. Tallman
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    Tallman Junior Member

    The Oxford Wherry looks like the Wayland boats in that it has higher sheer than the CLC ones but looks like them -- it would be an interesting to do a comparison of the most similar ones from each company. They say it can handle some chop, but also say the level of seaworthiness is equal to a canoe, which isn't too inspiring. At less than 16', the sliding seat may not be hugely useful versus fixed seat rowing. Their rigger/seat set up looks a little crude but is apparently very effective. My gut is that it's less seaworthy than others, but if you raise the front flotation chamber and put in a deck with some arch in it, and add a coaming and bring it around on the gunwales a bit towards the stern, it should do fairly well. For safety, the rear flotation chamber might also be raised. The hard chines will help stabilize the relatively narrow beam. I'd personally want something a bit longer and less likely to dolphin on every stroke -- 17 feet long or so. Sliding seat creates that motion as you may know, and length damps it. This one looks a fair bit like the CLC Chester Yawl, which might be an option, although it's shorter.
     
  6. Clinton B Chase
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    Location: Saco, ME

    Clinton B Chase Senior Member

    Hi I sell plans, too. There are a couple Drakes sold to NZ. It would be an incredible boat for your needs. Feel free to contact me...I have WhatsApp, too.
     
  7. ljcberch
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Boston

    ljcberch New Member

  8. ljcberch
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Boston

    ljcberch New Member

  9. Gorilla Restraint
    Joined: Aug 2018
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    Location: Stuart, Florida

    Gorilla Restraint New Member

    Hello all. What a fantastic thread this is. Have been reading it for months now and have learned a great deal. Thank you!
    I wanted to share a cool event with you. An annual charity event for cystic fibrosis. It started out as a paddle board event and is now attracting rowers.

    I am building a Fairhaven Flyer for the event. Maybe not the fastest, but seems seaworthy and within my skillset. My daughter and I will row together and expect to need 12 to 14 hours to complete. Will have chase boats and support teams, and will postpone is seas exceed 3ft (cross fingers after start).

    Crossing for a Cure - Every Father's Day. A paddle/row from Bimini Bahamas to West Palm Beach Florida.
    The Crossing For A Cure™ https://www.crossingforacure.com/

    A great video of their 2017 event. The 2018 video is being relased very soon.
     
  10. bnt
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: Sweden

    bnt New Member

    Yes hello lets put some new air in the rowing forum.

    Crossing for a cure is some event 12-14 hours rowing i guess it is some 40 nm I have just seen the video, amazing!

    I have some new Sculler type rowboats one is a dubble, all have the same hull but they have different cockpits and are used for exercise and one for expedition. Its a Sassdesign for fast and easy rowing in archpelago enviroments and max 2-3 feet waves more if you like it wet, (the doubble have Anderson selfbailers).
    Its 6 m long 0,94 m wide with a hull design like an oceanracer and its easy to manuever, it is close to no rocker it has a retractable skeg and hull is 5 panels of 4 mm gabonplywood.

    The original inspiration comes from the Liz a wherry of Ted Moores design which I think has a more romantic touch to it with its wine glas transom. Liz is a fairley fast on the pull but hard on then break on the recovery when sliding back and I think best suited for flat water. The Liz transom has a sharp angle that creates a significant sternwave and its rear end is very fine/narrow. Average speed came down to -3 knots from top speed of 5,5 knots even when I was making the recovery more gentle, not to dip the transom to much. A smarter more modern design came up on the wishlist.

    The replacment ended up with two designs one for strip building no. 151 in 2011 and one for stich and glue design no. 172 in 2013. The 151 came out fairley well I still row it but it it was originallly built to become a mold for a production boat (the hull got a bit to heavy 65 kg). No 172 has the same wetted area and displacement as 151 but 172 being a plywood boat it got a wider transom which actually improved the perfomance. The hull weight on this ended at 40 kg which is not so bad for a boat of this length. With a guest or camping gear the boat still keep a high average speed ist, not so sensitive to load. The average speed with no 172 is now 4,5 with topspeed at 5,9 knots and a stroke pace of 20-21 /minute. The bright red boat is the no 151 is strip tec. the other ones are the no 172.
    Id like to have some comments and views on these designs to find improvments. As an example, one that will be tested soon is an interceptor.
     

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  11. Gorilla Restraint
    Joined: Aug 2018
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    Location: Stuart, Florida

    Gorilla Restraint New Member

    Hello BNT - Thanks for checking out the video I posted. The "race" is approximately 72nm. You get about 20nm for free from the Gulf Stream. It will be one of the most difficult things I've ever attempted, but there is time to get ready. I am rowing 50km a week right now in training and hope to be able to row a marathon by November. With a fellow rower and rowing in intervals, I think we will do ok. Slow will be the key!

    Your boats are gorgeous!
     
  12. Gorilla Restraint
    Joined: Aug 2018
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    Location: Stuart, Florida

    Gorilla Restraint New Member

    Clint Chase - Would love to see a Drake 19 in the Crossing for a Cure. :)
     
  13. bnt
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: Sweden

    bnt New Member

    Thanks a lot. That is some task you put on yourself put 50 km a week that will sure get you in a shape you might never have had before slow and a steady pace is the key .
     
  14. beaver
    Joined: Mar 2016
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    Location: Switzerland

    beaver Junior Member

    I've built Biber Vajra, a 6 meters long sliding rigger recreation rowboat designed for me by Jürgen Sass from Sweden. The boat is built with cedar strips. The bent rigger has a cedar strip core and it is sheated with fibergalss and epoxy. The rigger cart works as expected. Today it glides on IGUS drylin rails.
    Some more info can be found here (short description) and here (incomplete build documentation, completion is in progress).

    The prototype was launched on August 18 of 2018 for the very first time. The boat is stable, rows well, ad it glides very good too.
    The prototype is now used as a base for more testing and improvements (sliding cart, wing and more) as well.

    Please be aware of the fact that only my own working plans are available today.
    To be useful for anybody else they need a lot of rework and refinement based on my experiences with the build and from test results.
     

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  15. bnt
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: Sweden

    bnt New Member

    Hi BNT here compliments for your boat very nice built. Looks nice in the water.
    I as you probably seen above built some other of Sass boats I am happy with them and their seaworthiness and the intended use for these boats fast and responsive enough,

    But this boat of yours, nice! itmore complies with the Coastal style which I like. This could be a deluxe version for connoisseurs instead of the GRP coastals. I guess weight is some -30 kg without rigg? I have followed your thread for some time during your building process. It will be fun to see if you launch it in some wind and wave situations how it responds then. With the rowers weight as is it is now I think waves will lift the bow nicely and make it fairley dry in waves.
    As there is no pitch to realy consider your rowing average pace will be high that makes alot for a day out rowing. In the Sass boats I built my average is about 4,4 knot in your but I guess 5,5 knot is difficult at all to keep at 19-21 strokes a minute
    this is a common rowing pace amongst rowers and can be kept for hours.
    Looking forward to read more of your experience .
    bnt
     
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