designing a fast rowboat

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by nordvindcrew, Oct 13, 2006.

  1. Clinton B Chase
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    Location: Saco, ME

    Clinton B Chase Senior Member

    history and new boat

    El Guero...I'm trying to understand your posts....maybe I need more coffee.

    Yaks just have the edge especially in rough stuff, but I think about the user who needs to be inside that yak in those conditions. Takes a special type. My main issues with paddling is that I cannot for the life of me get comfortable. My legs fall hopelessly asleep no matter what. Incidentally, it is a day of kayaking in Frenchman Bay around Ironbound I. that got me hooked on the Maine coast.

    But I found comfort in paddling canoes and did that a lot on inland waters. Then I found the ocean, then rowboats and a wife who was a highly competitive rower (number 1 in Head of Charles sculling until her back went). So we fixed seated together and she trained me to row well...still does....no matter what I do my blade angle is still a little off and I'm not quick enough at the catch or not releasing cleanly...years of coaching getting passed on to me. I actually listen and she loves that! Unfortunately, I don't have a good tandem boat for us right now and with little kids...hard to get out together.

    Now it is just me and rowing these days, ironically. The new boat will be called EVO after my wife Ellie (her initials). I have not told her yet...waiting for a drawing to come to life sometime this summer. I also like EVO as a name because it is short for evolution and that represents a lot about the boat and the story around it. For one, I may build the hull in Kevlar which would be quite an evolution for me...but it would be strippable. And lined off for 4mm Okoume would make a snazzy hull too.
     
  2. ancient kayaker
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    Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada

    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    It pays to do a few stretching exercises before kayaking, but I've reached the age when the real challenges are getting in and out of the cockpit. So I shifted over to a solo canoe: same double paddle and below the waterline seating arrangement, but no deck. That makes it a lot easier to get in and out, and stretch out the legs so they work again when I'm back on land.

    The lack of a deck was a bit worrisome at first especially when I got passed closely by a police boat in a hurry to get to the donut special at the local marina. I leaned back in the seat and the canoe simply rode it out: nice view at the top of the wave. There's great comfort in a boat with the right combination of primary and secondary stability and a really low center of mass.

    The higher seat of a rowboat is nice and comfy, but I hit enough stuff facing forward as it is . . .
     
  3. DickT
    Joined: Apr 2008
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    Location: middlebury, vt

    DickT Junior Member

    Rowing vs Paddling

    I picked up this old easy rider and set it up with some oars I made 30+ years ago. I can go much faster -even with the extra weight and drag of the outrigger- than I can paddling. The difference in stability with the row rig makes waves and boat wakes a little scary without the outrigger.
     

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  4. nordvindcrew
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: Marshfield massachusetts usa

    nordvindcrew Senior Member

    paddling

    I've got the parts together to build two 12' double paddle canoes. Should be good enough to get me and my woman out on the North River for a little recreation time. Plan is to get going after i have surgery for prostrate cancer. Not sure of the date or recovery time, but it is always good to have another project in the works
     
  5. DickT
    Joined: Apr 2008
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    Location: middlebury, vt

    DickT Junior Member

    Sorry to hear about your health issues. Sounds like you've got a good plan. I mostly use the cormorant above with a double paddle to go out on the water with my wife and her 15' kayak.
     
  6. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Clinton,

    I think you are looking at the vessel through 'American eyes.'

    All sorts of boats have been built through the years to get people across water.

    Yes, a canoe has advantages, but most of those advantages can also be found in Kayaks.

    The 'height' is the only real difference.

    But, building SOF will allow you to build a canoe, or a Kayak. Or a mixture of the two.

    Building SOF will drop the weight of your vessel. Dropping the weight, lengthening and narrowing slightly will increase your natural speed of your vessel.

    Also, you might investigate making your paddles skinnier, and using more strokes per minute, sounds like you have sciatica, or some other back injury to deal with.

    Does that help?

    Wayne
     
  7. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Or, you can add oar locks to your kayak.

    necessity used to be the mother of invention ....
     
  8. ancient kayaker
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    Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada

    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    - don't post that on a kayaking or canoeing forum whatever you do !


    - excellent suggestion. Clinton, that would be a Greenland Paddle; just google it for info.
     
  9. Clinton B Chase
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    Location: Saco, ME

    Clinton B Chase Senior Member

    uh oh the thread is slipping.

    We'll be working on the new coastal racer soon. I decided on a name...EVO.

    Wife's initials and short for evolution.

    Still a lot of hull definition left to do, but somehow having a name makes it seem more real.
     
  10. Tallman
    Joined: Jun 2011
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    Location: Los Angeles

    Tallman Junior Member

    Fast Double Rowboat

    Some pics of recent progress. Firefly2, stretched to 23', 39" beam. I'm pretty shaky on how to post these here so they are at : http://www.flickr.com/photos/slowslide
    (top 4 pics)
    Tallman
     
  11. keith66
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: Essex UK

    keith66 Senior Member

    Looks good to me! All this industry going on!
    My Gig came of the mould today im well pleased, bit floppy as inner skin has to go on but boy is she light, http://eastcoastrowing.blogspot.co.uk/, Found a nice long board of timber in the roof of a friends barn, its been there 25 years. Possibly mahogany Looks like gunwale material, going to lift it down later in the week & see what exactly it is.
     
  12. Clinton B Chase
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    Clinton B Chase Senior Member

    Evo

    Keith Congrats

    I've been thinking about my hull construction for the new boat and definitely am leaning composite, but still with some wood.

    My tentative, "under-research" plan: CNC cut the molds pretty closely spaced, 10". Strip the hull with 3/16" strips. Use the lightest Eastern White Cedar I can find...Atlantic or Northern White...but preferably Northern White at 19 lbs/cu. ft. The hull will be sheathed, if I can afford it, in Kevlar and CF. No idea yet the laminate schedule. I like the Kevlar for the durability. Obviously, CF will give me a stiffness hull.

    I usually use these in infusion, so a wet lay up ought to be interesting. The carbon/kevlar hybrid looks interesting, CF in the warp and Kevlar in the fill direction. 1K/3K CF is available where 3K is in the warp and 1K in the fill. Lots of flexibility with reinforcements even compared to 5 yrs ago when I started using this stuff.

    My plan is to use the cedar as a core. I have thought about foam strips too. I'd like to use strips over male MDF molds so that the boat could be built in composite-one off, or wood strip composite, all from CNC cut molds. But, I see many cut a female mold for foam-stripping a hull.
     
  13. keith66
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    keith66 Senior Member

    I like the idea of a female mould for foam cored boats but the lofting or cnc has to be spot on as you wont be doing much eyeball fairing once the jigs built. Using the foam core in vertical panels allows much less glue ie less weigh & less fairing. In the interest of fairness i set the longitudinal stringers fairly close together, as it happened too close! When i came to put the core on found i couldnt get my arm through most of the gaps to do up the self tappers that hold the core on temporarily! Duh! so a degree of contortionism was required working from underneath. Still its all a learning curve!
    Im in two minds about the need for exotic materials like kevlar & carbon, my gig is relatively low tech being hand lay up only with light CSM & Biaxial cloth using vinylester resin but has come out at a respectable weight, the finished hull shell is approx 90 kgs, im going to have to be very careful with the fit out & everything needs to be light!
     
  14. diwebb
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    Location: New Zealand

    diwebb Senior Member

    Joe Dobler

    Hi NORDVINDCREW,
    I have been absent from the forum for quite a while and just started to look at your thread. Very interesting!!! I have not read all of the posts but have not seen a mention of Joe Dobler's designs.
    I lived in Southern California from the late seventies until 2002 and rowed against his Millenium Falcon design which won the Catalina to Marina Del Rey race in the early eighties. It is an open water race of about sixty miles, if memory serves me correctlyand can often be quite rough,. I dont' remember the elapsed time but she smoked the fleet and finished in a record time. When I rowed against her it was in a 14 foot boat of my own design, oar on gunwhale against her sliding seat rig and we lost by a fair margin. My boat had been timed over a flastwater course at just over five knots for a two mile race within Marina Del Rey, two people at oars that were too short, only 6"-8". She had a lugsail cat ketch sailing rig and could plane quite easily even though she looked quite traditional with her glued lapstrake construction. I had her out in 35 knots of wind on more than one occasion and she never shipped much water or gave me any concern with regard to safety. I will post her design as soon as I get the hand drawn plans photographed and I get back to New Zealand where they are stored. I am in Queensland for the winter and should be back at the end of October.
    I hope all is going well with your health issues. All the best, David.
     

  15. Clinton B Chase
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    Location: Saco, ME

    Clinton B Chase Senior Member

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