Design vs existing

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by smilicus, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. smilicus
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Location: South Africa

    smilicus Junior Member

    Hello All.

    I'm looking for plans for a dinghy aprox 15ft (s&g construction) with an open transom and a more modern look. It should be able to carry at least 2 adults and be nippy, but not necessarily a performance dinghy. It should also be economical to build an maintain, so looking at a cat rig or wish bone rig. I will be using it in sheltered water (in a bay) mainly.

    I have looked at quite a few options - Core Sound 15 , Argie , 15, Goat Island skiff etc , etc. They are all very good designs, but as a younger sailer, I am looking for something a bit more modern and with a cat rig or so.

    I love the lines and looks of the Truc 12ft for Crus Yachts and was wondering if any of you know of a design along that lines and look that can be build with ply, stitch and glue method.

    I have also played a bit around with Delft Ship and was wondering if that might not be the way to go, with a lot of help from you, to the perfect boat for me.

    Hope you guys can help me :?:.

    Cheers
     
  2. Tim B
    Joined: Jan 2003
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    Location: Southern England

    Tim B Senior Member

    There are a lot of two-man dinghies in the 14 foot to 18 foot range. If you look hard enough, one has probably been built already which will meet your needs. A few that spring to mind are:

    Wayfarer, Enterprise, Laser 13, Laser 16, Lark, Firefly

    The last two are slightly older racing boats, but they both look reasonably "modern", and have significantly more performance than the "cruising" boats.

    For economical purposes I would look to the minimum number of moving parts (ie. single mast, centreboard and rudder) and GRP construction. Plywood is not cheap in time to maintain as the boat gets older. EBay is good for older sailing boats, and don't worry about buying older. My LARK is now about 35 years old and, whilst not up to "modern" racing dinghy speeds, it will still go like stink when you want it to, and it stays a lot dryer than the newer boats too.

    If you do build your own, then the open transom is going to require using a deck, which is going to be thickness-driven by the sailor walking on it. Similarly, the bottom thickness will be dictated by trailering operations etc. Consequently, although it seems like a good structural idea, it will add a lot of weight, which will kill the performance and make man-handling the boat difficult.

    Since my boat does not have a free-draining cockpit, I use a small in-line electric water pump which is clipped to the mast chock on the keel-line, and hence submerged when required (and therefore is self-priming). This will not help you if you are shipping water regularly from waves, but it will allow you to get rid of any water from a capsize or scooping in over the quarter without having to bail. Electrics can work on a dinghy, but they MUST be waterproof. You may find that GPS and radio will be useful, and you can include a way to power them.

    Hope some of this helps,

    Tim B.
     
  3. Fanie
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Colonial "Sick Africa"

    Fanie Fanie

    LOL. It seems you're looking for a 200 L displacement hull, 2 meter long with a rediculously oversized sail. It will carry 2 adults, won't perform and it will be nippy :D
     
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    This is Murphy and fits the slightly convoluted design requirements you've stated.

    [​IMG]

    Designed as a safe, stable, rough water capable craft that can handle a crowd on occasion. She's also available as a gaff cat or can be sailed as a Bermudian cat as well as the sloop shown. You can get some preformance out of her, but she'll want some wind and to be "held down". She'll maneuver well and have no bad handling manners.

    This is Sabor and about the size you where looking for, though has a much higher preformance potential then Murphy.

    [​IMG]

    This boat is really only designed for one thing, which it does well. She can accept several different one design rigs and can be sailed as a Bermudian cat too.


    For more information about either, contact me through email (click on my name).
     
  5. smilicus
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Location: South Africa

    smilicus Junior Member

    Thanks for all the info guys. Like Pars Sabor a lot.
     
  6. NA me
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Location: Lumut

    NA me Junior Member

    Dinghy build

    PAR do you have a design for FRP/wood sail dinghy. sheltered waters, light breeze with a sail like an Opti(simple rigging) for max 2ppl. for beginner sailors?

    I am planning to build one but don't have the skills to create a design that will sail properly, and have a limited time and money to experiment. prefer a dinghy that sails like a Laser(one person).

    My group of friends could build the hull from fibreglass or wood but I have no idea where to get sails and the mast/boom to sail. we usually make/repair canoes and paddles ourselves for fishing in front of our college.

    how do you make sails and mast/booms? order from a steel mill? what kind of cloth material?
     
  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    NA me, you request is full of contradictions. You want an easy sailing, easy to rig beginning sailor's boat that will preform like a Laser, possably with a steel mast?

    Simply put, I don't have anything like that, nor know of anything close to it.

    I do have small, easy to build, easy to rig and sail designs that preform like a sailing trainer. There are countless numbers of these types of designs available, from all the usual sources (Glen-L, Bateau, etc.). I don't have many designs smaller then 3.6 meters, though I do have a few. You will not get a reasonable preformance from a 2 man boat in sizes smaller then this.

    What you need is a sail trainer, with the potential for rig upgrades as your skill levels grow and you want more excitement.

    Look into the Glen-L 10, 13, 14 and 15 as starter boats. also check out the plans from B&B yachts and Bateau.
     
  8. NA me
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Location: Lumut

    NA me Junior Member

    Your the boss.

    In this matter I apologize if I contradict myself. So if it behaves like a laser what design would you suggest.

    with this kind of rudder>http://www.nenuphar.com/admin/photos/produits/1925_1.jpg

    my idea is to build a hull with similar stability to a laser and buy second hand laser sails, rigging, mast, boom etc. but if there is a cheaper solution I am game for that.
     
  9. smilicus
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Location: South Africa

    smilicus Junior Member

    Hello Na

    I have been looking around a lot for the same kind of thing, easy to build, a good performer, but with low cost since I am in the charity sector. But after long nights laying await, thinking about it, I had to drop a few of my requirements. Now I am convinced the the SCAMP (small craft advisor magazine project) is the one that will get you afloat economically, fast build and have rather good seaworthiness and speeds measures at 5.49 Knots in the Everglades challenge. And with the "cabin" you do have some shelter if it rains and enough storage for two peoples stuff for a long days sail.

    Here are two links:

    http://smallcraftadvisor.com/component/content/article/361

    http://smallcraftadvisor.com/message-board2/viewforum.php?f=3

    Happy Sailing

    smilicus
     

  10. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    There are lots of preformance dinghy designs, though this wouldn't be my first choice for a novice sailor, unless you just like to capsize and learn how to right the boat often. The novice sailor is much better off with a sail trainer, possably one that can upgrade its rig as skills improve. Once you've become an intermediate skilled sailor, then an introduction to dinghies is warranted. A Laser is ideal for this as it's got good preformance potential, but forgiving enough to not dump you every time you make a mistake. As a preformance dinghy, the Laser is middle of the road, lively, moderately quick and can be "tweaked" to get the most from her. A year or two in a Laser and you'll have the skills for another step up. This is the natural and logical progression. You can jump right into a preformance dinghy if you want, but without some experience, you'll get frustrated pretty quickly. This isn't to say you can't do it, but is to say that you'd be bucking the usual learning progression.
     
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