Design possibilities of a modular vehicle

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by vapera, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    You must really believe that all members here are just couch potatoes, have never travelled the world and know nothing about other countries. It may well be that I have seen more of your home country than you, to give just one example. And be sure that our professional builders NA´s and engineers here have seen more idiotic claims like yours, to count the wheat from the spray.
    Your attempt by so far, was just a empty envelope and a endless rant about all proven values and institutes. Do you want my personal opinion about you? No, you don´t want that, as you did not want critical but constructive comments.
    All you want is to get your bias and blabber confirmed. Bad luck, professionals of any colour don´t do that as generously as you want to feed your "inventors" ego.
    Thanks btw to confirm our assumptions by letting not one single point out to qualify your drivel as what it is, empty nonsense.
    You should have read the paper Leo provided, and at least skimp on the most idiotic statements.

    You failed, try again elsewhere....
     
  2. vapera
    Joined: Jun 2006
    Posts: 121
    Likes: 4, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -16
    Location: Brazil

    vapera Senior Member

    For such a nonsense invention and such a little person like me, your loosing too much time, specially on a weekend.
     
  3. Wingz
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 42
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -4
    Location: Tampico, Mexico

    Wingz Junior Member

    I understand your problems. A standard drill that costs $15 US just across the border costs $35 to $40 here. Want to borrow money? Sure, 200% in real estate collateral, and only 10 % per month interest. Try to import things yourself and your costs doubles at the border. That with a standing wage of $4.75 per day. Materials to work with, that are made in 50 different types elsewhere, are available here in two types and those of questionable quality. Visa cards with a 65% annual rate – what a deal! Try to start a business and the local mafia comes around demanding protection money.

    What you are doing cannot be compared to other work. It stands alone in form, function, and reason for being. As such all those old school formulas by which 'they' design and judge vessels, have little significance here. My opinion is that what you have is a group of recreational vehicles, not unsimilar to jet skis, or wave riders, but with a far more futuristic style and the ability to 'train' modules together. That is a new market, one that hasn't been opened before. To open that market you will need a marketing man (or team) that can see your visions and translate them into orders. Doing that is a job only the best can do. They will cost you a lot, but then x% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

    Then if you get orders, you will need to produce them, or have them produced. The question here is how much will it cost to produce them vs. how much will they pay for them? The difference between those two figures must be enough to make every body involved very happy, not just a little happy, but very happy. This is often times the glitch that causes the most problems. To get a true handle on costs, really the only way is to build several yourself so that you know what is involved and all the costs. That is the only way you can get a base figure to start your negotiations from. I know that that may sound like a near impossibility from where you are but poco a poco. Your journey is just beginning. And, perhaps it is the journey that is the important thing – for now.

    Mexico has several cenotes. If you can get here I would like to explore them with you. The project I am working on now is at http://tampicoventures.com/Boats/Using Water to Fly.html My post on the subject is here: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/roll-control-using-foils-35145.html and I have endured similar attacks.
     
  4. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Ohh, dont worry about my time.
    My time here is not much. Only my online time is somedays over 16 hrs or so. 1/2 of a hour I enjoy to learn and contribute. Another half to hammer on dumb heads like yours.

    And weekends I do not know, my bread comes fresh baked every day. I am not a working slave like you.:p
     
  5. Pierre R
    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 461
    Likes: 32, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 458
    Location: ohio, USA

    Pierre R Senior Member

    One of the things that I find facinating about the boat design forums is the entertainment value from a vast number of people who believe that they have something that no one else has thought of. That's a tough row to hoe in the marine industry.

    If you believe that you have something that no one else has thought of but you are paranoid about industry and commerse then you have nothing at all.

    I make a damned good living as an inventor but in order to do so conventional wisdom, industry and commerse are my friends, not my enemies. All one has to do to earn money with an invention is to be in the way but buyable or offer a solution to a problem. That may or may not even involve a physical invention that you can hold in you hands.

    Research is the key to a good invention. Knowing what went before, what has worked and what is needed is paramount if you do not want to waste time "re-inventing the wheel" so to speak. Bingo ideas that pop out of nowhere and are unique are in my opinion the subject of movie films, not reality.

    I see countless people in these forums trying to re-invent the wheel by throwing conventional wisdom in the trash heap and listening to well wishers. Good inventions come from knowing everything that went before and adding that one more step beyond what has gone before. Without knowing and embracing conventional wisdom, you don't stand a chance. Many here seem to think that conventional wisdom is dogma, static and will destroy your creativity. Nothing could be further from the truth. The truth is that conventional wisdom frames the mind and frees the mind to concentrate on what is missing or beyond one's reach rather than clouding the mind with dead ends.

    As far as industry goes they are the one's who have to take your invention and bring it to fruition. If you don't know how they operate, what they need to make a profit and how your invention is to be manufactured you don't stand a chance of getting your invention past your own mind. Steal? Damned seldom if you are buyable and personally valuable to the invention. Remember, stealing leaves you as a competitor. Better to eliminate the competitor and gain the knowledge. What you have to realize is that inventions have to be a win win for the parties involved. If your invention is not developed to the point of being a manufactured idea in a win for industry, industry is more likely to deep six your idea right in the trash bin rather than try to steal it.

    Vapera your approach here will get you absolutely no where as far as funding and help with manufacturing. You make it clear that anyone who tries is going to be seen as a corrupt enemy. That is not a win for anyone helping you and is more likely than not going to result is some sort of stalemate between you and them with them the real losers and they know it. As it stands now you did not open doors you said hi and slamed them shut.

    Lot's of people have simple creative marketable ideas but damed few of them know how to take those ideas forward. I takes way more than just a good idea.
     
  6. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 4,997
    Likes: 488, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1485
    Location: Midcoast Maine

    DCockey Senior Member

    Creativity which works can involve pushing the boundary of conventional wisdom. But first you need to undestand the conventional wisdom, its limits, gaps and contraditions. Then you may have the "eureka" moment with a new idea. That's when the hard work starts.
     
  7. vapera
    Joined: Jun 2006
    Posts: 121
    Likes: 4, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -16
    Location: Brazil

    vapera Senior Member

    How can two countries be so alike?:D
    You're still right, everything you said is a fact, and I'm trying to produce it, not only that, I'm developing a technology that doesn't exist so there will be no obstacles to my production. For you to understand what type of obstacle this is: many years ago, a brazilian entrepreneur João Amaral Gurgel, created the last 100% brazilian car. It was a tiny and very low cost car that had then quite a modern design, it was similar to the Japonese cars being launched that are very little. This entrepreneur made his tiny car and, along with it, he made another model that guaranteed electric automobiles to state-run companies. For his tiny model, he made a very consistent marketing, and when everything was done, he endured a sudden and fatal attack: the ruling car industries in brazil, the same of Mexico, forbidded the industry to provide the glass (if the glass industry provided the glass to Gurgel cars, they - the entire car industry - would stop buying their glass) to Gurgel's company, and thousands of cars remained unfinished because they didn't have glass, and Gurgel's company broke. To avoid this kind of thing to happen, I'm developing a production system that doesn't need anything from the productive chain of the competitors.

    Concerning the marketing, you're absolutely right, and one of the things I've been trying in terms of marketing was to create the need, and because of that I created my site.

    When I go to Mexico, we will, without a shadow of a doubt, explore the cenotes, more than that, with my invention, that I'll take as a gift for you. I just hope that this gift is not subject to the Mexican import taxes.:D

    I really think about the sailboats questions, but I'm afraid :D:D:D to put what I think here. I'll study an idea to post in your thread about these questions. By the way, I think the nautical evolution has reached its top. In my opinion, it is necessary to reboot all the nautical concepts. With the present evolutionary conditions, I believe, like you, the foils will make a jump to something else.


    One question: now is close to winter in the North Hemisphere, how many daylight hours are there now?

    I don't eat bread, nothing against the German breads which are fantastic! I eat only fruits , vegetables, nuts, seeds, whole grains.

    Check this other site of mine, which is my work, and tell me if someone who works with such entertaining things can be a slave.



    I totally agree with you, but I believe that all your inventions don't conflict with the conventional wisdom and the industry's interests, something that is strategically perfect for you to do. Due to that, you have a much more positive view of the industries, not because they're good, but because you're good to them.
    My invention (floating modules attached longwise by beam(s)) was never made before, something I always considered quite strange, because the Polynesian invention of the catamaran has 3 thousand years, probably more, and its concept is floating modules attached sidewise by beams. The closest to my invention was cargo transported by barge that has several modules attached by pivotals, like train wagons.
    I can say that my knowledge about the nautical world is quite wide, as in other areas. An example: the wankel engine has been known for several years, but was never implemented even though it is much superior to the ciclo otto. The reason for that is not because the wankel it is more difficult to be made (it has less moving pieces), the reason is because it forces a change in the productive structure of the industries. When the diesel engine was invented (Rudolf Diesel), it worked with peanut oil, and when Rudolf Diesel went to England to show it, he strangely disappeared and was never found, and the diesel engine started to work with petrol instead of vegetable oil.
    You probably didn't learn this at school, but it is a fact, clearly showing that what is good for people and ecology isn't necessarily to the industry. And more, if this industry feels threatened because something proposed is superior to what they can do, the industry will attack through its lobbies to sabotage the idea. If my idea were ineffective, bic wouldn't have been awarded with the copy it made. If my idea were ineffective, I wouldn't receive lots of email asking for my vehicle, that I'm forced to reply that unfortunately I'm not producing.
    As an inventor, you probably know better than anyone that to analyze an invention you need to make it and test it, otherwise it is impossible to know if it works. By the movie with a prototype of my invention (in my site) and by the comments posted here, where the some said that it has much drag, it is clear that it works, regardless of this drag, and it allows a person, even not having a state of the art kayak, to have a watercraft that is pretty, cheap, practical and that can be stored at home, that can be carried in a train, a bus, in the smallest existing car, on a motorcycle, on a bike, on foot, which means it can be transported by any means, something impossible to another kayak. More than that, it can be produced with materials that are illogical to use to produce other watercrafts. This means that, at worst, it has advantages over the kayak that are by far worth having a lets say 5% (I know it's less) additional drag.
    It is clear that since my firts post here, 4 years ago, people attacked my invention without having ever studied it, which shows that their arguments are not based in technology nor science. Those that attacked and burned at the stake Giordano Bruno didn't use
    logical grounds, they used dogmas, because then every study was done in the church, the science was ruled by the church. In Portuguese, the word "catedrático" is commonly used to refer to a teacher, professor, lecturer, which is a term originated from the cathedrals where the education happened in the past. And the educational system still works the same way nowadays, it is controlled by the powers that be, which says what is possible and what is impossible. The reasons for that haven't changed and were never theological, it's not the denial of God that is questioned, but the ideas that can threaten the establishment.
    You're absolutely right, specially in brazil. Maybe you can explain the reason that bic prefered to lose the Brazilian market instead of trying to negotiate with me, even this being a country where most people live in apartments, usually close to water sites (it's a hot country where water makes difference), and the yakka concept (my concept) is perfect to fulfill the desire for watersports. What do I need to do to negotiate with bic?
    How can I be closing doors to the industry if I've always said that my patent is absolutely free to be produced in any country of the world, except brazil? How can I be closing doors to the industry with the diversity of designs I've posted in my threads, my site and my gallery, besides the market advantages analysis of producing this vehicle in brazil, that has the 5th largest population of the world, which has a consuming market that can only be compared, in Europe, to Germany? I don't understand where you are taking that from. If I was rude in any post, it was a reply to a previous post of people who were not being polite, not being constructive and only being offensive.
    There are 4 proverbs that I think are interesting to be mentioned here:
    "A negotiation is good only when its good for all parties."
    "The truth has at least three versions: mine, yours and the fact."
    "The gods of the losers are the demons of the winners."
    "While the lions don't get their own historians, the hunters will always be heroes."

    Totally agree.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Yeah, thanks. Who has the bigger one? Click my name to see where I am sitting instead of working.

    Enjoy life, it is short.:p
     
  9. vapera
    Joined: Jun 2006
    Posts: 121
    Likes: 4, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -16
    Location: Brazil

    vapera Senior Member

    Thank you for your advise.
    I hope you do the same.
     
  10. Leo Lazauskas
    Joined: Jan 2002
    Posts: 2,696
    Likes: 150, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2229
    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

  11. Pierre R
    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 461
    Likes: 32, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 458
    Location: ohio, USA

    Pierre R Senior Member

    If it tan't worth a popcorn fart then put it out there. The least of your worries is someone picking it up. If its produced you can get one some how. That is a good thing eh?

    The problem is that no one is likely to pick up on it a steal it until you prove it out. R&D is for you. Most companies want a proven idea.
     
  12. vapera
    Joined: Jun 2006
    Posts: 121
    Likes: 4, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -16
    Location: Brazil

    vapera Senior Member

    I'm feeling very important, you lose too much time with me!!!:D

    Well. I have my kayak in in the trunk of my car, when I want paddle it, it's always there, it's good.:D
     
  13. Leo Lazauskas
    Joined: Jan 2002
    Posts: 2,696
    Likes: 150, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2229
    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    A few minutes every four years is a small price to pay to prevent anyone losing money on this silly concept. It has worked so far :p
     
  14. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 485, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    . . . and a moldy car trunk, it just keeps getting better . . .
     

  15. vapera
    Joined: Jun 2006
    Posts: 121
    Likes: 4, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: -16
    Location: Brazil

    vapera Senior Member

    I won't lose my time here anymore.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.