Design possibilities of a modular vehicle

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by vapera, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. vapera
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Location: Brazil

    vapera Senior Member

    Nice contribution, but the distance between the hulls is too far, it is necessary to use the right shape. This for example
     

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  2. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    No no Dude, not so quick.

    First you owe us the Tesla car "indefinitely without fuel" evidence!


    Then I go my way (which is many ways, as a glimpse in my Gallery may tell you):p
     
  3. vapera
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Location: Brazil

    vapera Senior Member

    I saw your gallery, I know why you are so angry.
    To see works of Tesla, google and see by yourself.
     
  4. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada

    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    For me the gap between the hulls is a disadvantage, it allows water to slop onto the kayak which is not pleasant - even in hot weather, and definitely not in my part of the world. I doubt if the gap is doing anything useful; in my opinion the feature that may contribute positively is the flexing of the entire boat which can be achieved without the gap.
     
  5. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Jeff, why was my post deleted in whole? It's okay for this unsubstantiated member to insult me, but I can't do the same? Is it bad enough he's condemned the very industry he looks to garner some praise and interest from, but to banish the questions and retort he seems so willing, if not intentionally to extorting from us?

    <mod note: sorry - I must have deleted your post when I merged/moved posts from the designing a fast rowboat thread.>
     
  6. Leo Lazauskas
    Joined: Jan 2002
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    They are obviously just examples. It's just as easy with closer spacing and with different shaped demihulls. Hydrodynamically, it's still a mess, and more so with the arrangement you have now shown.

    Your analogy of a mother duck and a duckling is not quite valid because they can adjust their spacing dynamically depending on the speed and other factors.

    I wish you good luck, but I am afraid that you have wasted many hundreds of hours developing a concept that has very little merit and for a very small potential market.
     
  7. Leo Lazauskas
    Joined: Jan 2002
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    PAR, I thnk we might have a live one here!

    http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html

    I draw your attention to:

    3. 2 points for every statement that is clearly vacuous.
    14. 10 points for each new term you invent and use without properly defining it.
    24. 20 points for defending yourself by bringing up (real or imagined) ridicule accorded to your past theories.
    26. 20 points for talking about how great your theory is, but never actually explaining it.
    34. 40 points for claiming that the "scientific establishment" is engaged in a "conspiracy" to prevent your work from gaining its well-deserved fame, or suchlike.

    Cheers,
    Leo.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Google might be your source of knowledge, it isn´t mine. And it is not me, to prove your nonsense right or wrong, it is you!

    Tesla did never invent, describe, build, or even fantasize about a car which could run without fuel `til eternity.
    What a utter nonsense. That would be the perpetuum mobile. Google that....:p

    By so far, you only have proven, that you are not willing, or unable to back even the simplest of your statements. But you are willing to attack any person contradicting. Change your medication or the asylum.


    Thank you Leo, nice link!
    And the candidate has 200 points.....:D
     
  9. vapera
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    vapera Senior Member

    To solve the "wet butt" is easy, for example a neoprene skin between the modules, but it is important to know that a lot of therapies use this modality of shower to heal (Louis Kuhne therapy and others natural therapies):p
    To feel the real potential of the gap, you need use the vehicle, it's the only way to know about something, really. You need to feel (for example playing computer games is similar but not the same as reality; race games, you can understand quite close questions about time reaction, calibration, mechanical characteristics and aerodynamics, algorithms are close to but not the reality, yet! But it is impossible to feel the inertial reaction, effects of speed and inertia on blood and all the feeling reactions).
    Theories come after the real test. Because all the mathematics models are based on empiric experiences, a fac simile, and there are even other reasons under and beyond reasons, like discredit others ideas that conflict with the established ideas. So, if you have mathematics models based on a specific idea, it will not work perfectly with other ideas. Algorithms that you created only serve for you and for what you understand, and if something extrapolates your understanding it will also extrapolate your algorithms, you are close but not exact, yet! And you didn't use the design shapes that I showed, why are you talking about a thing that you have no idea of?
    To understand better you need to use the real situation and not mathematical models, besides after your first post attacking my idea (around 4 years ago) which I retorted, so you are angry, because you are "the lazauskas" and a "guy from third world" doesn't need yours mathematics models, and created another conception. Perhaps you need to upgrade them. If I'm so wrong, why you are wasting your time. You said, when I tried a polite relation in this thread, including saying that "this is a job for leo lazauskas" (comparing you with someone powerful), that I needed to pay for yours services, and I don't need your service, but I kept the level of conversation, something that you can't do, you define my work as a "mess", "nonsense" and what else. But you keep on wasting your time with me, you're working without payment!!! It is really bizarre!!!:eek::eek::eek:
    I don't envy or despise you, unlike your apparent behavior. I'm not here to fight with you. Not all the established scientists are right, for instance, einstein (as an employee of the patent institute of Bern) stole the relativity equation from Henri Poincaré and Hawdrik Lawrence (http://cafehistoria.ning.com/profiles/blogs/entrevista-cesar-lattes-fala). This was said by the best brazilian physicist (he was a candidate to the Nobel prize twice and discovered the meson). His name is César Lattes. The question is why einstein was turned into a genius? I will not waste my time explaining this, because it's not what I want to talk about (A History of the Theories of Aether and Electricity - Whittaker). Finally, you never read about my patent, it is in my site. If you had, you would know that the modular vehicle like ducks swimming in line can adjust the gap between the modules, and you would know that what you said that this invention can't be compared to ducks swimming in line is nonsense (until now I had not used terms like this with you, but you are not showing respect for me).
    In my opinion, you and these disgusting guys that follow you can get out, it's the best way to discredit me.
    You can't understand, but you are where you are not because you are intelligent (maybe you are), but because your work is in the right way that the establishment wants. To understand, brazil, has the largest road network without pavement of the world, but it didn't have 4x4 cars, they have been introduced here only recently, and only as electronic cars, that are easy to be stopped (with magnetic pulse, with satellite order, or what else). The reason is clear, this is a very rich and pleasant country (like a giant tropical island) to the elite and it's important to maintain it "virgin", that's the reason of the rural exodus. And if you don't have a 4x4 car you can't go anywhere (4x4 cars here are very expensive, only the elite can have it). My invention works like a 4x4 car, it makes rivers (one of the largest drainage basin of the world) accessible to people, it is portable, and cheaper because it can also be made of recycled PET (poliethilene Teraftalic), of EPS (expanded polyestirene) and until now no boat could be made of these materials. So I believe that this might one of the reasons of the resistance of the enterprises, sabotages and corruption towards my invention, due to the fact that this vehicle allows people to go where the establishment doesn't want.
    Motor continuous (if not continuous like the academics want , it's close, using magnets) is easy to make but it's prohibited to be patented in a lot of countries, if it is impossible, why the patents institute, that love to create expensive taxes, lose money forbidding that? A lot of stupidity is patented around the world (here I will save the time of your followers, "that's the reason that my invention was patented":D:D:D).
    Why is it so important to discredit peoples like me. You accept work without payment after saying that you want payment. It's really nonsense, mess and others disgusting adjectives, and even, not an intelligent behavior. Maybe the "industrialists" think you are incredible with this behavior, but people, including industrialists, that think, know what you are doing, it's a sabotage. It is possible to electrify all the places with electromagnetic fields, and I explained why they (you) don't do this, despite the loss to people. It is possible to never make recalls, and I explained the reasons of the recalls, the people are the real test pilots of the industry, people don't receive any profit and their lives are jeopardized.
    Thank you for giving me the chance to show the reason of your attack to my invention.
    A guy that talks about Tesla all the time, was never able to object my others questions, and only attacks Tesla that can't protect himself. When Tesla developed a AC eletricity, Thomas Edison electrified and killed a lot of animals, including an elephant, to prove that Tesla was wrong!! It's one of the sabotages that Tesla was submitted to.
    All the super heroes have enemies like a crazy genius, why are genius a threat? Why they use Tesla to attack superman? Because they can destroy the parasitic system where the controllers live. If you come here to offend myself and my invention, you need more brain, I'm not a genius, but I'm not stupid too. Probably in a chess board I will eliminate all of you. Your strategy is pathetic.
     
  10. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada

    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    So it isn't necessary to have separate hulls, just to have some flexibility to prevent loss of energy to wave action.

    (water therapy is less popular in Canada than elsewhere at this time of year, at least outdoors. The water is hard and tends to leave a bruise)

    I completely agree about the value of a successful demonstration! I hadn't realized you had actually tried this out; I saw the 2-piece portable canoe but course that is, as far as I know, not flexible. Do you have a video of your tests? That would help convince the doubters, since you do not have a convincing theory with mathematical proof of your concept.
     
  11. vapera
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    vapera Senior Member

    I think it's really freezing there, a friend lived in Canada and said that the tears freeze in the winter!!!
    Without a gap, it's impossible to graduate the paddler size and it is difficult to pivot, and it doesn't give the liberty to create in design and shape. And this gapless model I already made, and it gave me bad luck, it was the one bic copied (in my opinion, yakka is absolutely ugly, like my model).
    I will make this model, articulated. The one that I made was a graduated model and the movie doesn't show the graduation in the gap. And this model melted down, because the protection skin that I made was thin (epoxy resin) and when I put acrylic resin, it melted.

    To feel this project.
    It's not difficult to build one, take a destroyed kayak, separate the stern and bow, inject polyurethane foam and fix the beam, the beam uses three tubes, two you fix in stern and bow, and other introduce in both and drill a hole and put a bolt. It's done, use it and enjoy it.
     
  12. aranda1984
    Joined: Jan 2010
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    Location: Vancouver, B.C.

    aranda1984 aranda1984

    Modular boat

    The design looks very nice on paper, (especially the longer version) but I agree with Leo that unless you actually make at least a scale model, you don't know if it is worth to do a prototype at all.

    You don't need much money to build a model and drag it in a large tub of water.

    However, consider the stresses on the actual joint, (specially on the long model) due to the fact that the force arm is measured in many feet or few meters...

    I have seen video of a pentamaran experiment. A scale pentamaran model was built with it's own inboard power, to see the four amas interacting.

    Don't let our "not so warm" reception discourage you.
    (And don't believe that everybody is out there to block your discovery.)
    Distance yourself emotionally from the idea and just pursue it through investigating curiosity.

    First, learn more about the problem at hand. Next build a model and do some drag tests.

    In case everything fails, you have excercised your brain, you had fun and learned a great deal.

    In the past 26 years I have been doing R&D for clients.

    I can tell you that not all ideas work out the way we envision them.
    R&D does not guarantee positive results, however ...frequently as you search for one thing, you stumble onto something on the sideline that could be a winner.

    Good luck,

    Stephen
     
  13. vapera
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Location: Brazil

    vapera Senior Member

    Thank you for your advices, Stephen.

    At the moment, I have no conditions to make what you're suggesting. I know even how to make the tub of water, but I don't have space, money, and I would have to make around 10 scale models. For you to understand, I built all the models (prototypes) in a 150 square feet room, the living room of my apartment, since I patented this, I need to stay concentrated to avoid sabotage from the patent institute of this cesspool where I live. I can prove this!! To me it is really difficult to fight with all the governmental corruption. This is the reason that I'm here, because I'm trying to convince decent people from decent countries to produce my invention, and I'm offering to whoever decides to produce it a gift invention, a lot of people here said I was doing a scam and begging, but I never begged for nothing, I only suggested for someone (company or person) to produce it, so that I could import it (paying for this, like any normal importer), and I would give an invention that, of course, I can't show, because this invention will became a patent (it has not been deposited yet) in the hand of the one who produces my patent. And because of this people are thinking I'm crook!! Once more I remember, my patent is protected only in brazil, in the rest of the world it is public domain.
    People think I'm hiding something. And certainly I am! I'm hiding an invention (to be patented) that will be a gift for who produces my patent. I can't show an intelectual property to others, it's illogic. I'm saying all the time, my patent is free in all countries except in brazil. No one needs to pay me anything, just don't do what bic did, don't steal the paternity of my already patented invention, even with a mediocre product (yakka)!!!
    All the tests that I could do, I did. Here in Brasilia (capital of this country) the university has money to pay corruption but not to build a tub of water or something else useful, the university rents a room to an inventor at the market price and the inventor has to give 35% of his/her patent!!! You pay market prices and need to divide your patent! If I have to pay somebody, I prefer pay to other countries (never to this cesspool), and that's what I'm trying to do. And people come to this thread to offend me. Read some previous posts and you will see. It's not a "not so warm reception", it's offense, it's cowardness! I doubt those kind of people have the courage to say those things personally.
    All the tests that I made I showed how to do, I used a surfboard, I made a lot of models, models of the size of "my pocket". I treed to produce it in EPS (expanded poliestirene) and the enterprise, during a meeting when I was with the money in cash to produce one thousand boats, suddenly refused to produce it!!! alledging that the machines didn't have size enough, but they had, when I first went to that enterprise. It's sounds very strange to me. I'm not a conspiracionist theorist, but it sounds something really wierd to me!! Maybe now you can understand why I'm trying to mobilize anyone here to produce my invention. If it' s a hoax, if it's a scam, why was bic awarded with the copy of my patent? How come this yakka has market? And it is a pathetic copy of my patent!! I couldn't produce it in brazil until now, and it's not because I don't have money, it's because it's a criminal country.
    An enterprise (unipac), that offers to make any rotomolded product, and that is the mother of brudden (one of the largest kayak company in brazil), told me that they couldn't produce my invention, according to them I had to talk to brudden, that said that I had give them all my know-how for them to analyze it!! But one year before, I had already tried a partnership with brudden, which after complimenting my patent, suddenly said that it was not interested. I can write a book with the name of all the local entreprises that had the same behavior, not mentioning some that even changed the name of my invention, as if it belonged to them. I'm talking only about enterprises that I'm sure closed their door to me, others, I hope they change their opinion, this is the reason that I'm avoiding to talk about this. So I ask, do you really think that these enterprises are honest? You don't believe in sabotage?
    But I know there are a lot of honest enterprises around the world, and I will find them, maybe here.
    Thank you for all.
     
  14. Wingz
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Location: Tampico, Mexico

    Wingz Junior Member

    I just saw some of your images in the gallery and the first thing I have to say is "Bravo". Keep up the work. It is so very refreshing to see some actual new ideas coming up, and your artwork is superb. I'm not going to say anything about the problems those people above complain about because in reality, in my most humble opinion, what they are complaining about is their own lack of creativity, and their own inability to to come up with new, original designs. By denigrating your work, they hope to elevate themselves above you, not by building on your work, but by chopping you down so they don't have to climb. Also, I believe that those attacks, have little to do with the purpose of these vessels, and frankly would advise you to push them aside and continue with your work.

    My only advice at this time is that it sounds like you are working alone, and that is a problem. Someone said once 'The hardest thing in the world to do is for an artist to sell his own work.' You become so involved in the work, that the smallest negative comment can be a crushing blow. Once I was selling some very artistic hand carved,wooden lamps for a very high price, and the buyer made a comment that would have made the designer cry. He said, If they don't sell, can I chop them up and use them for firewood?” As a disconnected salesman, I returned “Sure, I also carry a line of high carbon steel axes, if you would like to see them.” He laughed and the sale was made, but I never told that to the lamp designer.

    Also, I have proven too many times to myself that I cannot be the designer, the builder, the errand boy, the bookkeeper, the salesman, the attorney, the workers, the janitor, the finance man...........all at the same time. If I try I am 'the Jack of all trades and the Master of none.' and nothing gets accomplished to the level it should. As such with your patent(s), and your designs, I believe what you need to be building is not models, but a team of people who can make those designs a reality. I understand what you say about corruption, I live in Mexico. However, every member of your team will need a cut of the proceeds from your designs, to help you with your work. Whether that cut is paid in salaries, commissions, up front, on receipt, or what ever is another problem. Your job then is to keep those percentages reasonably within your expectations.

    Good luck! Onward! Bravo!
     

  15. vapera
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Location: Brazil

    vapera Senior Member

    Thank you Wingz!!!
    To me it is an honor to "hear" your gratifying words, because only a person from a country with the same problems, from "the third world", knows the real problems of corrupt countries, can understand what is the real problem. People from the "first world" can't understand, for instance, that a US$ 50 drill, costs, in brazil, around 150 dollars, they can't understand what is paying 2 thousand dollars for a computer that costs 500 dollars at compusa dot com, they can't understand that the basic, standard car for which they pay 6 thousand dollars, here (where they are assembled) it costs around 15 thousand dollars (and doesn't have the same quality and accessories), and that discrepancy happens only because of the corruption costs!!! They can't understand the expensive and modern system of electronic polls was established here to improve the corruption, easening the manipulation. Imagine poor people (not a poor country) with a really expensive high tech voting system that most of them find it difficult to operate!!! And that happens while many "first world" countries still use "the obsolete" voting system. They can't understand it!!!
    I imagine that Mexico has the same behavior of brazil. My sister, who travels a lot, told me once that Mexico is the country where the people are most similar to the brazilians! And she knows a lot o countries, I know some from South America, and I have other relatives who lived in the USA and France, so I have a little idea about the "first world", but the idea that I have is that the "first world" has no idea about the "third world"!

    People are conservative, and don't understand that calculations, algorithms, computer programs are only made for specific situations, it's impossible to adapt the conventional concept to a new concept. On the other hand, people producing and living based on older concepts, don't want to change, the costs of this change are big, with low profits, which is not an easy thing to be accepted.
    A lot of people with good intentions give me advices that are viable in their countries, like a tub of water, a big lab, a big structure to solve complex new propositions, they can't understand that this structure here is impossible. For example, the only tub of water in brazil that I know is at UNICAMP(Campinas University-SP), and UNICAMP only accepts people who have a "godfather" or much money to rent their equipment, and if you are not among the "favored" you need to pay a lot and wait until there is a vacancy left by a "favored"!
    They can't understand it!!!
    On the other hand, this is a good thing, because it makes us really creatives to overcome adversities. For example, I had to create and build some of the tools and the material developed to make all the prototypes and scale models. So we become more creative because we need to improvise in all stages.
    I tried to explain that the only way to criticism is to make the same that I did, and after making all the tests, they can say something about my invention, if they don't make any prototype, they can't understand it, they can only speculate. But I explained methods to ease the tests, like using a surfboard in the void of another surfboarder to feel the behaviors. But unfortunately, even with them living in countries where prototypes are really easy to be made, including using a stereolithograph, they prefer to attack my idea without any know-how!!! The idea is to make first, after it is done, talk about it, but not before.
    I think you are right, but I don't know anybody who can help me this way. I worked in Rio de Janeiro's Carnival, and have a good know-how in sculpting (it is similar to shaping), I worked with scale models during long time, I have a good know-how with it, too. I worked with molds to ceramic, resin and lead, so to me it is easy to make molds too. And these three areas are interconnected. I have no idea how to approach industries, and in this way I tried using the patent institute, and I saw how criminal they are, then I tried to use an attorney, and the enterprise refused to work with me like that, or worst, later attorneys refused to work with me!!!
    After all these (and other more) events, I became really unhopeful, and maybe I'm getting stressed with people that don't deserve, this is the reason that I'm trying to find partners in others country, and when I tried, I found some people calling me crook!! I'm certainly wrong with this explosive behavior and I will change it.
    I only ask people to do my invention before making technical comments, or it will be unfair comments. I can explain how to do it.

    If you want to make one for you, I can explain step by step a good way to make it easy. Due to its maneuverability, this vehicle is the best watercraft to explore caves, like cenotes.
    By the way, I hope to visit cenotes in the future, they're really wonderful.
    Mexico, I believe, has a lot of wonderful places, and an really evolved ancient culture, like South America.
     
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