Design possibilities of a modular vehicle

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by vapera, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. HJS
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    HJS Member

    Oops

    OOPS

    should be on an other tread:
    BOAT JOKES (we need a few laughs)

    js
     
  2. vapera
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    vapera Senior Member

    To me it's clear.
    The CD was an invention that was created close to the invention of the VHS, but the industry needed to pay the costs of development of the VHS, and kept the CD hidden. After receiving the profits they considered fair, the industry launched the "new" invention: the CD.
    The first car that passed the 100 km/h was a steam car, and the first car to break the 200km/h was an electric one. But the idea of a fuel that you can taken from a tree was not what the industry liked, and eletricity that you can obtained in a river you don't need to pay for.
    Besides Nikola Tesla made a car (magnetic engine) that could run indefinitely without fuel. But the petrol industry never liked this. All three inventions were suppressed.
    In brazil, until a short while ago, it was prohibited to use turbine in rivers, to guarantee the lobby of hydro-electrics.
    Are you sure about the good intentions of common industry?
    My invention can be used in any size of craft, including the large ones.

    Don't worry, it's funny.
    It's relaxing.
     
  3. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    I shortened your post to make at least some sense!:D Funny, yes. As much as Tesla is appreciated, he did not make a car which could run indefinitely. Nonsense
    Same is valid for your crude idea of industries suppressing inventions. Do you believe seriously, the entire industry worldwide is sticking together?
    BP would give you the entire oil branch at christmas, if you would provide them Teslas car exclusively. That is the reality.

    Wake up, you should have skimped on the post above, it destroyed your credibilty.
     
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The "industries" have proven themselves, repeatedly for many decades, it's you that have something to prove and clearly by the discussion so far, you haven't done so or even tried.

    I'm not sure what your goal here is Vapera, but this isn't the best way of going about an introduction of a new product or concept.

    I've viewed your articulated kayak and the wake appears to be draggy, to say the least, which is what I would expect from a craft like the one pictured in the videos.

    If you can't offer any preformance data nor an explanation, as to why anyone would want to entertain your product, over more conventional thinking, then you're wasting the industry's time.

    The whole point of a product announcement is to extol it's virtues and advantages, which of course is supported with data, preferably independently obtained and providing full access and view of the product (copyright and patent protected naturally, not that it matters) so the industry experts, who you've already previously insulted and degraded, can discuss, write and further advance the debate about your concepts, etc.

    Anything short of this is a fools folly, which apparently is a path you seem to be willingly ambling down.
     
  5. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    Hey, he is taking a well proven path to riches. The Amish are very successful using this scheme with their Edenpure heaters and airconditioning units. Of course it is a scam but there is apparently no shortage of gullible rubes waiting to be taken advantage of. Whether this guys idea is useful or not, we will never know since he isn't going to reveal any of its secrets. This kind of post shows up here pretty often.

    There are some instances of industry suppressing technologies other than the ones they want to promote. Some streetcar lines were bought up and dismantled to coerce the citizenry into buying cars. The US population did have to seek out ways to get stainless razor blades from England and Sweden when Gillette was happy to keep making blades that lasted for only one shave. Same thing happened with radial tires. Our industry had to be forced into making them by loosing market share to foreign imports. The common US business model of maximizing near term profits is not conducive to developing new or better products. Luckily, there are plenty of outfits around that use new ideas to enter a market and this forces the big guys to change their ways, often absorbing the little guy and his idea in the process. In the end, it seems to work but its a mystery.

    The Segway was a bust and garnered attention from everyone in the media. There are some Segways doing useful things but it fell a little short of taking over the world as promised.
     
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  6. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    We manufacture and market modular boats. The 30' canoe is in two simetrical halves. There is an engine mount module with sponsons to bolt to one half. It can have other configurations too. There are several in use by commercial operators.
     
  7. vapera
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    vapera Senior Member

    Question: who are you and who do you work for?
    Concerning Tesla, you say he didn't do it, and I say he did, so it's finished. And I say that Marconi stole Tesla's patent, and that Tesla was not the only one to invent the radio, read about a Brazilian priest Roberto Landell. Marconi himself illuminated an entire city (Geneve) with eletromagnetic waves; here in brazil, in the 50s/60s a radio station had to recalibrate all its antennas tower, because they were providing free electricity to the population., same Marconi's method. Why aren't the cities illuminated nowadays with electromagnetic waves? Because there is no way to charge. I mentioned several examples, and you mentioned only Tesla's, why? Because it's difficult to talk and prove. Talk about Tucker, use Tesla that was ridiculed even in comics is easy, because the midia has already discredited him. Talk about Tucker. Why a car with extremely modern safety systems (seat belt) like, for instance, his center headlight that turned with the steering wheel, but it would be to expensive and the industry didn't wan't to pay. Talk about what I said about the steam and the electric cars, don't shorten (actually you didn't only shorten my post, you edited it and included an answer that clearly wasn't for you), this argument is cynical. If you want to argue, don't shorten or you give the impression that you want to hide something because everything I posted is true and threatens your "big brothers!
    If you are an industrialist, you're problably belong to the group that doesn't want development, and for that reason is bothering to object an idea that might shake your empire. If I'm so small and mediocre to you why are you so worried with my posts here, if my invention doesn't please you, forget it.
    I'll give examples: the recall. The recall exists because the industry is not spending the necessary to reach an optmun condition of its products, turning the customer into a test pilots, and the customer is not paid to do that, doesn't have the entire safety system to test and pays to test, with the risks. If the industry did right way, it wouldn't need the marketing, because a good product doesn't need midia, people talk to people is enough. If the industries were correct, they wouldn't need zillions of lawyers, no need buy governments to guarantee their criminals interests.
    My invention was copied by Bic Sport (it was the most simple model I made to ease the understanding of my patent) and the prove is that in its patent it's writen that the modules can be attached by strap, bolts, hinge and even a beams (but that company only uses a beam, which is my invention). Its patent was deposited in France in 2004, and mine in 1997. That multinational didn't deposit this patent in the USA, there it only deposited a design patent. Besides they sent me an email saying they were not going to sell the yakka in brazil (and the brazilian people wants this kayak), and because of this robbery they are losing a market of around 70 million population, and strangely the brazilian patents office started to try to extinguish my patent. Is it a coincidence? Then why was the patent of this company deposited in 12/3/2004 and a letter of proposal I sent to Petrobras (the brazilian BP) vanished (and was never found )on 12/1/2004?
    As you can see I'm not lacking proves that large companies are rarely honest, and you are a prove that the small work to the bigs and do anything to demoralize those that attack. As you can see, I prove what I say, if I were lying these companies lawyers would have already taken my patent.
    You destroyed your credibilty!!! Actually not that much because the midia belongs to the companies and know very well how to lie, to the point that Tesla didn't invent a car that works without fuel. If you are here to demoralize me, you'll have to do better than that.
    If I didn't show Daiquiri the pics from below the waterline, it wasn't because of him, but because of people like you, and as I'm proving the industries have no dignity, and those that have will know how to make an approach to obtain this type of information. Beside, criticize my invention without posting anything that can be compared to it, shows envy, my entire site was made by me, all the animations, all the prototypes were made by me. And I have this other site (http://ilustrossauro.webng.com), if you can make half of it and prove it, I'll remove all my posts, but if you can't don't came here to offend me. Besides, since it looks like you haven't read any of my posts, you should know that my invention can be made by anyone, because its royalties are protected only here in brazil and if you were right, I would have this very large amount of images in my album here in BoatDesign. Try having half of my criativity and you'll start to be complimented instead of offending myself and my invention with envy and despise.

    Nonsense is to enter this thread to offend without substance to defend what you say.
    I'm not you, tom lathrop.

    "The insults are the reasons of those without reason." - Rousseau

    To all those that did not use stupid arguments, I apologize.
     
  8. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    Vapera: it’s much better to have your own thread to develop, isn’t it? Now we need to understand what your improvements are and how they come about.

    In your various posts you noted several ideas which I have tried to summarize with a brief commentary based on my current beliefs, which are fairly conventional.

    In a previous thread you showed a portable two-piece boat. Portable boats need to be light, and are either take-apart, inflatable or folding. Take-apart boats like the Klepper are good paddling boats and fairly light, but most people that own them prefer to assemble them once in the Spring and take them apart for storage in the Fall, which suggests the assembly and disassembly is a chore. An inflatable boat takes time to inflate by hand and deflate, and few inflatable boats that are light enough to be carried are also useful in the water. A folding boat is limited by the need for small folded dimensions and tends to be too small for efficiency when unfolded; it becomes valuable only for short incidental river crossings, not for long trips on the water. Your video showed a small folding canoe that seems to have the same characteristics as a small, sit-on-top kayak, but easier to transport. The similar, folding BIC yakka is probably more stable but is also not a very pleasant load to carry.

    In Nordvincrew’s thread the effect of varying speed during rowing - brought about by an exchange of momentum between the boat and the rower - was discussed and the extra energy required to maintain a given average speed was identified, together with rowing systems intended to overcome this problem - and the rules that were introduced to ban them! You proposed to eliminate the need to pull the oars out of the water, but I do not understand how that can be a good thing. No matter what change is made to the shape of the oars, more drag is created by leaving them in the water during the recovery part of the stroke than by recovering the oars in air - a much less dense medium. In canoe paddling both the Indian stroke and the Canadian stroke keep the paddle in the water; the Indian stroke is used for stealth during hunting and the Canadian stroke is to simplify maintaining a straight course while paddling single-handed; neither stroke is used for efficiency or speed.

    Your idea to use a segmented hull to reduce energy lost to wave action - in which the vertical movement hinders horizontal movement - may have some merit. It has been demonstrated that a flexible hull has an advantage over a rigid hull in some conditions. A baidarka is a skin-on-frame style of kayak which often has a flexible frame. A baidarka will sometimes beat conventional kayaks where wave conditions are severe, although not often. As you noted, in certain wave conditions this advantage is lost, but I did not understand your explanation of why this is so. I suspect the optimum boat characteristics depend on the length of the waves, in which case perhaps a segmented hull with an adjustable midships hinge may have an advantage. I suspect the range of conditions will be limited however.

    Some advice if I may: I don’t think it helps you to disparage science or industry, even if you can advance the state of art. Modern progress in both science and industry is remarkable and has a great deal of public acceptance and respect. You certainly should not do so until you demonstrate the superiority of your concept in a fashion that will receive market acceptance. Few here will accept claims that require laws of physics and hydrodynamics to be set aside. Similarly it is better to avoid an exchange of insults with other posters; I have found that such exchanges can obscure the purpose and value of a thread.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010
  9. vapera
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    vapera Senior Member

    What is the Modular Aquatic Vehicle

    Hi, Ancient kayaker. it's really better
    I will answer all yours questions in my next post, because I was posting the text bellow before I read your post. And I'm not fluent in English, I take some time to do this, and I'm starting right now...


    This is an abstract of the patented Modular Aquatic Vehicle
    idea

    The determining factors of exclusiveness and novelty of the Modular Aquatic Vehicle are its portability, aggregability, interchangeable parts and multi-propulsion. It is for single users, and when new modules are aggregated it becomes a multi-user watercraft.

    Comprised of hydrodynamics modules attached longwise by a beam(s), the design of this product is a factor of its many uses. It can, according to different arrangements, meet multiple purposes: transport, sport, leisure, safety, support, tactics, exploration, rescue, marketing and other possibilities not considered yet.

    It can be paddled (like a kayak or a canoe) and rowed, it can be used as an "aquakart" (motorized), as a "pedalayak", as a "pickup kayak", etc., all these possibilities are available just interchanging and/or adding parts.

    It can be the world's smallest boat, and attaching modules to it can make it the world's longest record winning watercraft!

    The vehicle can be made of several materials with highly floating properties and good structural resistance. EPS (Styrofoam), polyethylene, polyurethane and other plastics for the production of the rigid models of the vehicle; PVC, hypalon and other impermeable plastic for the inflatable models. It can also be semi-rigid (made of rigid and inflatable material), in this case, the major advantage would be a portability close to an inflatable model combined with the hydrodynamics qualities of a rigid model.
     

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  10. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    You know Vapera, I didn't disrespect you in any way, though I did ask questions and also suggested your approach to product introduction was flawed, which clearly by any successful business model it is. Yet you found it necessary to lump me in with the rest of you snide remarks and foolish innuendo about "industry" and conspiracy theories, not to mention undocumented ******** about Tesla, of which you have no conventional support, nor have you offered any "new enlightenment" on the subject.

    This is classic horse **** of the highest order. Yes, the sky is falling and we're responsible. Please do us poor industry folks a favor and climb under the rock from whence you came.

    In other words, back up your insult with facts and independently confirmed data or pander your crap someplace else. You're acting like a desperate homeless person who's insisting on respect.
     
  11. vapera
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    vapera Senior Member

    Thank You, Ancient Kayaker!!!

    Ancient Kayaker, thank you for the summarize and the advices!!
    I was thinking of jumping out of here, after a lot of offenses, people like you give me hope and enthusiasm!! This gratitude can be extended to everyone else that post proficuous questions, information, non offensive criticism , even jokes!!!
    The space between the modules creates a venturi.
    I think the wave that has little mass, in the shape of a triangle with a very acute top angle, has no power to raise the kayak, and in this condition, the boat perforates the wave, and its speed is reduced , with water splashing the kayaker and the structure too. In a segmented hull there are two impacts, in the first module and in the second module (a little one, but it has), so the boat its speed reduced twice. But if the distance between the modules is narrowed, this second impact ends. In a big mass wave, the wave raises the boat, in this case, a large space between the modules, reduces this rising, making the boat fall because the wave passes between the modules, and the vertical torque is converted into a horizontal movement. The hydrodynamics of the models are fundamental to guarantee this movement change, in wave that attacks by the side, the effect is minimized because part of wave crosses the space between the modules, and improves the stability. When I paddle a surfboard in the void of another surfboard paddler, I can see these effects really clear, specially if the surfboard is short (6,7 feet or less).
    I made a lot of prototypes of this vehicle, in all of them I saw that the drag is minimal, there is no wake between the modules, because the time that the second module takes to occupy the space opened in the water by the first module is really fast, around 0,1 second. I didn't measure it, but at the speed of 1,5 knots/h, in one second it covers about 75 cm (to ease the calculation convert it to 100 cm) , and the space between the modules is never bigger than 10 cm, it's 1/10s, so there is no time left for the water to occupy this space. I won't talk about viscosity calculations, because it's unnecessary here. So all the allegations about drag is insignificant , and in the motorized models it will became ridiculous!
    In terms of maneuverability, this idea is the best option, for example, for a slalon kayak, because the space between the modules reduces the lateral drag, and the pivoting stern makes the kayak bend. In a multi-user model, the pivoted beams make it behave like a snake, that can rise and fall at the same time, make turns in all the directions and reduce the flex stress, even eliminate it!
    I'm trying to put people to test this conception, but people understood it wrong, people think I'm begging! I put a lot of prototypes here, to make naval professionals work with a base to do the best. And I certainly want the industry to produce it, because I will be able to import and sell it in brazil, because the industries here are not honest. Unfortunately it didn't work!
    The yakka of bic is a copy of a mediocre model that I made to make common people understand what I created. They can't sell this in brazil, I removed the denunciation I had in my site about it, hoping this company decided to buy this patent and win the brazilian market, but for them it's easier to wait as long as necessary for my patent extinguishment. But if anyone else wants to gain the brazilian market, it is a good opportunity. As I sayd before, my patent is public domain in the rest of the world, so, only to bring it to brazil makes it necessary to pay me.
    Any doubt, just ask.
     

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  12. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Just removed the insulting drivel....:D Did not edit it, as I did not on the first quote, just removed the ****.

    So when did Tesla a car which was capable to run

    ???:?: It is not my part to prove your claim wrong, it is YOU who has to prove it right. Same is valid for your bold statements about your phantasic invention.

    I work for me, not sticking heads together with my competition to suppress brilliant inventors like you. If I would see something promising, I would try to gain a advantage over my competitors. But by so far I have seen nothing from you apart from insulting science and industry in one go! A perfect introduction buddy, really professional.

    And when you quote members posts, do not quote two members as if it was one.

    G´day
     
  13. vapera
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    vapera Senior Member

    Thank you for your contribution and for showing your level with your educational remarks, I saw your photo gallery and qualifications, I saw what you can do. So now I understand you. By the way, why are you here? I believe that you are in another level, and I suppose that we are immiscible. Stay in your level, and I'll stay in mine, don't worry, I will never contact you.
     
  14. Leo Lazauskas
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    It's not that hard to calculate the wave patterns and resistance of thin hulls in tandem, e.g.
     

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  15. vapera
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    vapera Senior Member

    Bye apex, follow your way.
     
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