Design possibilities of a modular vehicle

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by vapera, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. vapera
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    vapera Senior Member

    Design possibilities of a modular vehicle (split from designing a fast rowboat)

    The rowing boats are obsolete, since the creation of this kind of boat nothing new came to this conception, only in terms of materials (in this way, the development was really strong), but the traction system is the same of a hundred years ago.
    So, I think, now it is time to break this project, it is time to jump to another way. The rowing boats now reached the state of art, but that's all!! It is necessary to break the basic idea of a rowing boat to create something really new, and reach a new level of performance. The movement a rower makes is the best, but the rowing system isn't.
    I started to develop the modular aquatic vehicle around 15 years ago, and in this period I had to create a lot of new systems to maintain the revolutionary concept of this invention. I was forced to create a new idea about the rowing traction system, and this system eliminated the long lasting parasite movement waste in rowing. Explaining: while rowing, pulling the oars out of the water is not productive, besides it creates a drag and needs solutions to improve the aerodynamics, it needs a shape change, but if we eliminate this parasite movement and transform it in an effective movement, the speed will be increase. This is the base of this new idea.
    The image below shows the modular aquatic vehicle with a common rowing system, but I'm showing it here only because people here might not know about this concept, and the system that I want to start to show was made to improve this concept of boat.
    My idea is simple, I need to produce my invention, because in brazil all the enterprises are sabotaging my idea through governmental corruption. So I'm willing to pass on this revolutionary rowing system to whoever produces my invention to me.
    By the way, I'm a eximious rower
    What do you think?
     

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  2. NoEyeDeer
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    NoEyeDeer Senior Member

    I think my butt would get wet in a chop. :)
     
  3. vapera
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    vapera Senior Member

    For sure!!
    But don't worry, there are solutions!:idea:
    This project works like a "Lego", a lot of pieces can be attached, and change the design, the purpose, the propulsion, and even the wet butt!!!
    Besides, in a hot day, a wet butt is not bad!!:D
    As you can see, with this model it is possible to assemble and store in a house, and to be transported inside a car, it's also not bad.
    You can see more in this site, and in the photos album here.
    http://aquaticvehicle.webng.com
     
  4. NoEyeDeer
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    NoEyeDeer Senior Member

    Ok, but what are the advantages for high performance rowing? Exactly how are you reducing drag?
     
  5. vapera
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    vapera Senior Member

    This new system I will show only when someone starts to produce the modular aquatic vehicle. this system will increase the speed, what I mean is that the relation power/performance will increase. In the same way, less work with more speed. To clear things up a little, the system to reduce the drag will use the movement of the water, and the same water will also be used to make a gear. It is really revolutionary!!!:idea::idea::idea:
     
  6. NoEyeDeer
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    NoEyeDeer Senior Member

    Have you tested it in practice at full scale and compared the results to a standard setup?
     
  7. vapera
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    vapera Senior Member

    No, I haven't.
    I have no money to do this, also I have no structure and tools to do it.:(
    But I developed a lot of similar miniature systems and it works better than the standard because the "oar" stays in the water during all the time like a propeller, in this way it doesn't lose time out of the water.
     
  8. Leo Lazauskas
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    The pictures are beautiful, but hydrodynamically, it looks like a mess.

    The waves and viscous wake created by the front "pod" could interfere very badly with the flow of the stern pod.

    I think you really need to build one and test it before making claims that it is revolutionary and somehow better than all previous attempts. Until then, you are asking us to believe your guesses. I certainly don't.

    Good luck!
    Leo.
     
  9. vapera
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    vapera Senior Member

    The pictures are of a hybrid vehicle, not of a "thoroughbred" rowboat!!! The part under the hull is not showed, you have no idea what it looks like!
    I'm developing a new conception, and I need to test it, "This is a job for Leo Lazauskas" .
    This new conception is based in a segmented hull, I don't think it can work in a continuous hull.
    Since this hull has a new conception that needs to be patented, I didn't show it yet. The idea is based on fins and how the young whales follow their mothers, using the "vacuum" of the mother to be "sucked" in the water (I don't know how to explain in English technical terms). Here is not the place to show another kind of boat, and this conception I made only in a prototype of a "kayak".
    By the way, this conception of watercraft was based in Mother duck and her ducklings swimming, or ducks swimming.
     
  10. Leo Lazauskas
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    I based my comment on the hull separation, the shape of the stern of the first pod, and the shape of the front of the second pod.

    You asked what we thought of your idea and design drawings. That is all we have until you provide something better.


    A "paid" job. :)

    Wave cancellation depends on the separation of the two pods (or ducks). At high speeds (say 5 m/sec), that distance is likely to be much greater than the arrangement you have shown. Also, wave cancellation at one speed can turn into significant wave reinforcement (and hence higher wave resistance) at other speeds.

    Good luck with your research!
    Leo.
     
  11. vapera
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    vapera Senior Member

    At the end of my first post here, when I asked "what do you think?" I was asking about my idea of exchanging a new conception of a rowboat traction system for the production of my modular aquatic vehicle, and not about the design or even about the idea of the invention itself.
    I started that post alledging that the rowboat has reached its evolution end, the 3D models that I showed were only to understand the reason that I developed a new rowing system.
    I believe that everybody's opinion is really good.
    But it is important to understand that my experience in this project (hydrodynamics modules attached longwise by beam(s)), is longer than yours because even though I don't have a pool or a lab to study the behaviours, I studied this conception in the place to understand it (on the water) , I row and paddle not only boats, I also paddle surfboards and, in this case, when I'm in the vacuum of another surfboard (it is important to understand that there is no sea where I live, I usually paddle a surfboard in a lake during 2 continuous hours) I feel the behavoiur of the surfboard, which is different from computer models, mathematic models, controlled situation. The water behaviour changes all the time, I approach the waves by side, by front, by back in the same situation. So my study is not made in a controlled situation, but in a real situation.
    What you sad about the mathematics equations is absolutely right, I will not question about your know-how. But all the mathematics models, computer models need a real situation to describe what is happening, this is the way . So, different situations require new analysis. To understand what I'm saying, in this conception, when a wave hits the boat laterally, the space between the modules minimizea the wave effect on the stability of the boat, which is absolutely not relevant in an ideal flat water. But in a real situation there is no ideal flat water, in a competition, there are the waves of other boats' oars, there are sudden or changing winds and much more.
    The bow of the front module has the same shape of the bow of a surfboard or windboard, and the behaviour of the water is close to this situation, it is not the same, but it is similar. This invention doesn't need to have space between the hulls, if you don't want, you can modify the configuration of the hulls, you can increase or decrease the space, and even not leave any space.
    I appretiate your comments, but these models are based in a multipurpose watercraft conception, that can be used like a rowboat, a kayak, with a pedal, a motor and even a sail!!
    I'm puting some models below to clarify what I'm saying.

    Sorry, at the moment, I don't have money to pay you, I just think it's a good idea to be among the first to study a new concept, to be a pioneer in a know-how. I believe that studying everything, independently of payment, is the best way because skill and knowledge are a real power!!!
    Thank you for your time.
     

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  12. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    It's difficult to discuss the hydrodynamics of your boats because they are unconventional forms. But one thing can be said - they have a lots of wetted surface, which means a lots of friction drag. Hope that you have considered that.

    From an aesthetic point of view your boats are eye-catching, at least for me. But the first two models look pretty complex, and that usually means costly.

    Finally, one question: what is that sort of spoiler in the first pic?
     
  13. vapera
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    vapera Senior Member

    I apologize to be posting here about boats different to this topic, but its the only way to illustrate the conception of the segmented hull, which can perfectly be applied to a rowboat. My first post here mentioned my opinion that the rowboats reached its evolution end, unless the traction system and its configuration are changed, because material change doesn't mean to change the rowboat, it means only reduction in weight and friction drag.
    This other topic talks specifically about the invention and anyone with further questions about it is welcome to post there.

    It's a fact, it's the reason that I'm in boatdesign, in my opinion, the best place to discuss about boats and all technical questions. It's important to considere that wetted surface is minimised in inverse proportion to speed. In the beginning the friction drag is certainly big, but it reduces with acceleration and becomes equal to a non segmented hull when in high speed (keeping the proportions of the differents models and purposes). In "ideal" kayaks and rowboats (high performance) it is important to mantain a short space between the hulls, in a multiporpose watercraft (the first rowboat pics in my first post here) there is a sacrifice in performance due to the variety of modalities use. I think it is not bad to have a rowboat and at the same time a kayak and pedal boat!!!

    Thank you, I try to make those really pretty, I think it's the best way to captivate the general public. The first models certainly are expensive, they have engine, long time to be build, not exactly portable, but easier to store, transport and maneuver in relation to a watercraft of same dimension, and safer because of the two floating modules.

    That spoiler is necessary because that model I imagine with a powerfull engine, which is on the stern module, and in high speed the bow module can practically "take-off" and lose stability, and in direction change, the behaviour is similar to a car with a trailer, when the car goes to the left, the trailer goes to the right. Engine models need dampers in the pivoting system, and that spoiler changes the configuration, extrados can become an intrados, like a wing or a foil upside down it guarantees reduction in drag and of the "take-off", and like a wing or foil in a normal position it increases the drag and improves the stability. It's another invention.
    The three images below illustrate what is to have 3 boats in 1.
     

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  14. nordvindcrew
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    nordvindcrew Senior Member

    no oars?

    I'm more interested in the new traction system our new forum member has mentioned. Can we hear more about that? The only negative, from my point of view, is that it will take me out of class and put me up into the development class which is the out and out race boats with multiple rowers and sliding seats. Not good for a conventional hull type.
     

  15. vapera
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    vapera Senior Member

    Me too, I really want to show this revolutionary traction system, but it's a new invention and needs to be patented, and the smallest detail I mention will be enough for any interested to understand and I will lose my invention, my ace in the hole. I can't patent anything in brazil, I'm sabotaged by the brazilian patent institute and watercrafts enterprises (and maybe others more!). That is the reason that I need a partner from outside, a strong partner, to pay strong laweyrs to protect my rights. For being an inventor in a corrupt country I'm leaving a nightmare!!
    Sorry, I didn't exactly understand what you meant with this comment.
     
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