Design competition

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by dskira, Nov 30, 2009.

  1. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    As well as most of stylists can't create design that works :)

    This statement is not true. Human factors are always addressed in naval architecture. For example, see comfort class requirements of ABS or section on human factors in Lamb's 'Ship Design and Construction'. There is a special conference on human factors in ship design held by RINA...

    There are 5 measurable factors of comfort: noise, climate, lighting, accelerations (MSI/MII/MIF), accommodation (including ergonomics and space planning). All of them are studied by naval architects.

    We always check some those factors during sea trials - measurements of accelerations and noise, for example.
     
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  2. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Yes, but we create the 'mass' :D
     
  3. rambat
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    rambat Member at large

    Human

    Alik, ever more and more emphasis is being placed on human factors and being studied/taught such as quantitative ergonomic reach, noise, climate and lighting which is extreamly critical for small craft design. I was referencing a softer, less quantitative quality in design. Paying clients vary too wildly to identify a generic design is going to meet all their "requirements" best and thankfully they have a wide range of NA's and designers available. These competitions by their nature usually do not include a review by a buying client so its mostly a technical review. Often the reviewers inject their opinion into the softer end-user desires. Still a very positive venue for expressing new designs ideas and getting newbies some exposure.

    Many times I see the same statement as is in this thread:

    "As you browse the boat shows this winter, look at the sleek, highly styled boats on display and try to envision actually living and cruising on them. I think it will make you appreciate the thought that went into these winning entries.-Bob MacNeill"

    But highly styled boats and good layouts with exacting ABYC visibility and ergonomics are not mutually exclusive, those NA's AND designers that can pull that off are still the exception is all was was trying to indicate. Even very technical computer interfaces, that we are all engaged in at the moment, live or die in the free market due to a subjective "look and feel" (again the assumption is they technically work). If these compititons wanted to take it step father. Have the panel/NA's select designs be "market tested". That would include a more real world outcome of a "winning design"
     
  4. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    The human factor is, by Werstlaw/Passage Maker RV) understood at the marina, where the boat will stay with its island bed, an immensly important feature. If one of these judge went on a motor boat by force 8, they will be on the sole, grabing what they can and the island bed will be forgorten for ever, as the country kitchen, and the "like condominium" comfort
    Does'nt mean you go force 8 all the time, my point is a boat of 32' is not comfortable by nature, so make things tidy, small so your body is always surronded. A double bed is stupid in any small boat, if you want to have sex, go to the bunk of your partner.
    As a shower stall, it's nice but try it by bad weather.
    As for the over size kitchen (not galley anymore) it is completly for the show room.
    Sad Dave Gerr don't design boat any more. Taking care of contest for a man of his talent is quite a downgrade.
    I know that in naval architecture you have to pass a lot of time poor, with some anguish for the future, but clients come back always. Perhaps Dave was not patient enough.
    Cheers
    Daniel
     
  5. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Quite right Daniel, I don't believe that 32' monohull is suitable for long term stay on board. Even a 32' cat with 16' beam is tight for me :)
     
  6. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    Maybe so, but the live aboard market is smaller than the market for boats that are lived on for weeks to months for a cruise and kept at the dock or in storage the rest of the time. To me, 32' is a big powerboat and getting outside the range that can be trailed. Trailers are becoming a bigger part of the market also because of marina and maintenance costs. Many of my friends cruise for one to several months every few years but don't need a big honking money pit the rest of the time. Their sailboats are 34 to 36 feet and powerboats are 28 to 32 feet.
     
  7. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Yes, but this is very individual. I like unobstructed living space, besides I am just bigger than average person :)
     
  8. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    No problem Alik, my comment was directed toward where I thought the market was heading. I am notoriously wrong on market analysis so that must be taken into consideration.
     
  9. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    I beg to differ. The vast majority of a coastal cruisers time is spent in calm conditions. For those occaisions when they aren't then single berths (most typically settees with lee cloths can be used. But to intentionlly 'cramp' a vessel so that living aboard becomes a chore is a cetain way of ensuring that there will neve be any sex onboard!!
     
  10. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member


    Doesn't that really depend on the age of those using the boat? I can remember getting along quite well as a younger man in the backseat of my Dad's car while at a drive-in movie theater.

    Cramped...? Didn't give it a thought. ;-)
     
  11. TollyWally
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    TollyWally Senior Member

    Not to mention the obvious but many of the boats designed and manufactored today are "toyboats" not real boats. Live in the marina but a few weekends a year and that's an active owner. They are no more designed for serious conditions than they are suited for them. The vast majority of the boats, like their owners are posers. And as long as you don't get stuck in one off shore in a bit of a breeze there's nothing wrong with that. But watch my eyes glaze over if I have to take either the "Skipper" or his boat seriously much longer than 1/2 a drink.
     
  12. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    So now we know that our 44' cat design was 'quickly eliminated' because it was 'too big and expensive'. Besides the cost and size are not listed a criterias for the contest :)

    Just wonder why one of winning designs (the tri) is bigger then ours. Maybe they just needed some Westlawn student among the winners :) But I like those winning designs!
     
  13. dreamer
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    dreamer Soñadora

    First off, I proabably should have searched for this thread before posting congratulations to Y-M. ;)

    My design was eliminated, I'm sure, due to being one of the incomplete entries. I ran out of time and was unable to put together complete, detailed drawings. I don't do this for a living and somehow need to squeeze in time between all the other stuff going on. Not to mention the fact that I still have a lot to learn - hence my interest in competing for a scholoarship :rolleyes:.

    I like the idea of competitions. However, sometimes I think the intentions can be a bit misleading. When a competition claims to be 'open to all', I would expect to see a better representation of 'all'. When you have a mix of novices and professionals, there should be some separation. Especially, in this case, when the prize was tuition for classes at Westlawn. That gives the impression that the contest is geared more towards amateurs, I think.

    However, now that we know the outcome that clearly was not the case. Yes, the rules stated the competition was open to novice and pros alike, but I still think offering an education award would somehow imply that the pros would not have the presence they did. Honestly, had I known so many professionals were going to enter, I would not have bothered. There is no chance for an amateur who does not do this for a living to compete with a professional with 30+ years experience and all the time and resources at their disposal to pull it off.

    I certainly mean no ill will towards Y-M and frankly I think it's great that he won. My beef is more with the organizers who I feel did a poor job of setting up the criteria for the participants. There should have been two categories : Pro and Amateur.
     
  14. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Unfortunately, the latest edition of PMM is not available in Oz yet, so I'll have to wait some time before I can peruse the results....:(

    I think there's little point in grumbling about the results or organisation of design comps. One enters on the basis of what is put up by the organosers and competes in the inderstanding that you might disagree with the outcome. There's little you can do to ensure that you know exactly what the organisers will be impressed by, beyond good design and presentation.
    Of course, having said that, it's clearly a scandal that my own design didn't take out the PMM comp!! :D
     

  15. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Mag is available online already.
    Nice boat, Will!
     
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