Design competition

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by dskira, Nov 30, 2009.

  1. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    At least two of the wooden entries in the PBB contest are being produced as kits. These are the winner "Marissa" and the PT Skiff. I think Jerry Burkett's design may also be built.
     
  2. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member


    The criteria can be easily established, Ad. It's as simple as having the managing parties of the contest sit down and create a list of folks who would be excellent participants. Yes, the mag gets to decide just who those people might be, but I don't see the conspiracy in operating at that functional level... when they own the whole tamale, anyway. Ya just gotta have some trust.... or remove yourself from the process and maintain what you might consider a clean countenance.




    If it's not to satisfy other pros then why should the jury be limited to only pros? Having an interested non-industry person on board to offer-up their perspective is as powerful as having your clients offer their opinions when you spin the magic dial on your design process. It's feedback at the front edge of all that comes from grounded reason. If getting feedback isn't as important as you would suggest, then why do virtually all bigger companies that produce products for the buying level consumer, conduct research testing with sample buyer audiences?




    Marketing is one interest, to be sure. This is a magazine that is supposed to earn a profit, is it not? Beyond that, though, and I say this because I've had some dealings with the publisher, PBB is very interested in exploring fresh ideas within the industry. Having a competition in which designers submit their most innovative interpretation of a set of rules does just that. For the natural flow of things to produce an equal number of new ideas to a specific outline would take quite a long time.

    These ideas are, hopefully , meant to filter down to the clients. In a previous post, Tom Lathrop has mentioned two that are doing just that. I call that a successful series of events for the boating trade, having come from the stimulus of a sponsored design contest. Do you see it otherwise, Ad?
     
  3. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Chris

    You must be on a totally different planet to me.

    "..but I don't see the conspiracy.." , who says anything about a conspiracy??..where on earth did that come from??

    Since the "criteria" is the whole MO for the magazine..which has yet to be fully established, other than many of us suggesting it is for marketing. I can't comment on the rest of that statement, because it is like reading cotton wool....woolly and no idea what you're trying to say!

    "...If it's not to satisfy other pros then why should the jury be limited to only pros?.. Having an interested non-industry person on board to offer-up their perspective is as powerful as having your clients offer their opinions....."

    Their perspective...of what??...again, you're assuming a raison d'etre for the competition which has yet to be fully established. Since why not have all the judges novices?....the reason for all pro's or all nocives etc remains. It needs a purpose, which is what?? To sell a magazine.....so it matters not who these judges are then. Other than to inflate ones own ego....

    If the judges were say:
    N.Irens, B.Dixon, B.Farr, E.Dubois...sure nice to have their recognition, if you feel YOU need their recognition.
    Otherwise, surely any old judge will do.!...just to say "I won"..and gain recognition, which is always nice regardless. But that is all.

    "..Having a competition in which designers submit their most innovative interpretation of set of rules does just that.."

    Yes, market the magazine...its their only MO.
     
  4. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    One could say that you are a sad and cynical person, Ad Hoc.

    Clearly, the simple joy of the human experience is well outside of your everyday life. One can only imagine how detached you are from the function of your own firm.

    You have so balled yourself into a technical expression that you have forgotten, if you ever knew, that people are an amalgam of living, emotional experiences, along with the techno world in which you seem to prefer.

    I feel sorry for you, my man. There is so much that you have overlooked and it has robbed you of the grace of your real humanity. I hope that one day, you can step away from the crap that you call real and embrace the entire spectrum of the human experience in all its glory. Until you do, you are going to be regarded as a singularly one aspect man.

    What a shame.

    Yes, by all means, come back with one of your pithy comments that only serves to drive the point home ever further. You owe it to yourself, so please, have at it. Don't forget to hoist your lance and have your faithful Sancho Panza by your side. You'll need all your weapons as you do battle with the big bad world that looms outside your door.
     
  5. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Chris

    All you have done is yet again demonstrate you are unable to rationalise your thoughts into a coherent statement and as such you are unable to address the issues being raised. You seem to enjoy debating about fairies and pink elephants and "lets smoke the peace pipe maaaan", and scorn others for not thinking along the same astral plane you're on.

    Since nothing of your statement above relates to a design competition, yet you seem proud of this somehow?

    Go figure..
     
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  6. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member


    Pure Pith... just as predicted

    Now how would one know that well in advance?

    PS: So what, exactly, Ad Hoc, is a Peach Pipe, Maaan?

    Is it a particularly fruity smoking device about which only you are aware?


    Curiouser and Curiouser. Why not quit while you are behind, Ad, and save yourself the continuing embarrassment?


    PPSS: Ahhh, the sad fellow has corrected his poorly played retort and now he wants you all to think he got it right the first time. The captured quote above says it all, Ad. You're a dunce cap when it comes to the joust of the word. Perhaps you have a gift for the technical, but it is not expressed in your writings. Let us know when you are ready to join the big league, my maaan, we'll give you the grace of an audition.


    And I have a real name, Ad Hoc... do you have the sack to tell us yours? Or, will you offer-up yet another pithy retort as to why it's not important to stand on your own two feet and speak from a position of your named manhood?

    We're waiting....
     
  7. Willallison
    Joined: Oct 2001
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Chris
    AH has his own manner, 'tis true, but plaese try not to allow your conversation to descend to the same level as those you have with Doug Lord. It demeans your otherwise useful contributions.
    Some people choose to post here under pseudonyms. It is their right to do so and I think it most inappropriate that you feel you have the right to 'out' him.
    As I said, I value everyones contributions... this is a boat design site... lets stick to the script
     
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  8. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    Well, I'd respond, thoroughly, to your well-reasoned post, Will, but apparently, Jeff has seen fit to remove the post on his own.

    Ad Hoc will, no doubt, get his due through other means.

    A man of his supposed stature should not need to stoop to the demeaning level that has been his hallmark. I'm at the entry level and some beyond, in this business of boat design. To have a person of his professional status disregard the postings of others here, in the manner in which he chooses to do so, is absolutely deleterious to the profession of marine design.

    I'm saddened by that reality.
     
  9. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Finally, seems as resuts of PMM design contest are published in Jan-Feb issue. Did anyone get it already?
     
  10. rambat
    Joined: May 2002
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    rambat Member at large

    Progress

    Chris, good comments, please don't feed the blunt fury that is becoming all to frequent here, almost drowning out content in this dynamic forum. Regarding the design competitions by magazines, it may produce a design revelation especially if challenging constraints are outlined. That potential alone is enough for the publishers incentive but it also creates activity and attention to the reader base, all very positive and free to the publisher. However, I agree that it is limited by a review of purely technical judging since very little of our business is based purely on technical and engineering features. Some of these contest are offered by product, style and design organizations. I have seen those design contest more often than the tech type, gain the winning participants work or job offers. There are a lot more technically proficient NA's in this field than can be fully employed, NA's that can create a marketable design is the exception. The best "contest" is when a client ask you to provide your best design to his direct needs. I just finished a new high speed design for a SOCOM request for proposal (RFP), that client is focused on Arch/Engineering including consideration of the human factors. Never is any good design purely technical, other important factors includes rough water speed limits due to our relatively frail human body, control interfaces, access and egress, layout and even a certain "look" of projected power. That "Power Projection" feature is a function such an aggressive boat design will do more often than using its raw performance, all those other humans factors are not addressed by naval architecture but are part of product design, vehicle cross fertilization and ergonomics.

    Successful design for private yachts and recreational clients is much more biased toward aesthetics, the under lying assumption is that the established designer will make good on the A/E. Someone noted the weight constraints from the PBB contest, craft weight is THE primary area most designers are focused on when looking for improved technical performance, not surprised to see it recognized in that contest. In the boat design business world it's a contest every day to win the challenge of your clients brief. if you are just starting out, these contest are a great opportunity to get some marketing exposure but it's also a venue for experienced designers to offer a new direction or innovative idea and gain some professional buy-in while educating potential clients to your concept. Again it's a healthy and stimulating activity for all involved.
     
  11. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Rambat it is your very personal opinion.
    I don't see a contest to winn with my clients, private or governemental.
    We jus work, like evrybody else. We are not special, we are just designing vessel. Some pull tooths, some are barber. All are workers, as we are.
    So many type of vessel, so many type of contract.
    But at the end, a so interresting life.
    What is a member at large?
    Just curious
    Cheers
    Daniel
     
  12. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Alik - this off the PMM website... but no more info yet...

    So - if yours was a 32 footer, then congratulations!
     
  13. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    This is probably the reason why I asked.
    Cheers
    Daniel
     
  14. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
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    Alik Senior Member

    No, mine was 44' catamaran :)
     

  15. Willallison
    Joined: Oct 2001
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    Willallison Senior Member

    mmm... mine was a 62' box keel aluminium displacement boat... so I guess we are both out of the picture!:confused:
     
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