Design brief for anti-whaling vessel?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Tevens, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. wardd
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    wardd Senior Member

    the blue whale is the largest creature to have ever lived
     
  2. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Wrong again, possibly. Brunathkayosaurus is said to be possible 220 tons but those numbers may be in doubt.
     
  3. wardd
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    wardd Senior Member

    then I'm only maybe wrong
     
  4. wardd
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    wardd Senior Member

    read up on it, the data is sorta inconclusive
     
  5. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    I already read it, here.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruhathkayosaurus, which is why you have the word possibly in my earlier statement. It is possibly the largest; so is the blue whale. We await more evidence.
     
  6. wardd
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    wardd Senior Member

    i read up on it (past tense)
     
  7. J3
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    J3 Junior Member

    The earthrace boat was amazing for its intended design purpose
    I enjoyed seeing what we did of the boat on the whale wars series. But it is hard to watch the whale wars campaign.

    They have to be underdogs -- the "war" is one of reality tv exposure.

    If they were "too competent" at disabling the whaling ships with their prop fowlers or putting the whalers lives in danger by disabling their ships they would be shut down for piracy or terrorism.

    They need boats fast enough to keep up but big enough to be safe for crew and filming gear while "in the way." The more "economical" to run the better. If they are interesting boats that make good tv, that's a plus.

    I'm not a vegetarian - my only possible beef is if whalers are killing endangered species. It is hard for me to watch a whale being killed. I would have a harder time watching a dog being hunted because of our expectations here to not eat our "best friends." And yet pigs are supposed to be smart, and by custom, we have no trouble eating ham.
     
  8. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    When did you see whales that had actually starved to dead? How many? Where? Your observations seem different that most published info. I am guessing that you believe the whale population is much higher that currently thought by most.
    Why do you think anyone would misstate the actual numbers?


    Fourteen Humpbacks documented the year before last in lower cook inlet (I have a friend that was doing counts of dead for NMFS on the side while tracking orca and came up with fourteen even tho boats were calling him and telling him of others that were probably mistaken for those already counted. It was a regular stink obstacle course that year). Occasionally others. One sperm ten years ago also but they are in an area where capelin are in climatic decline, IMO, thus the squid that the male sperms feed on were likely in decline, as well.. One Fin ten years ago but more next year as there is so little food in Eastern Lower cook inlet that the hoards of Humpbacks have moved into traditionally only-fin-and-sei area Sheilakof Strait and Afognak Island area. If I can't show you a pic of a starved finback next summer (or demonstrate documented obversation by research biologists), I'll eat my words. Seis wud break my heart because they really are endangered.
    I have no reason to believe that whale populations are any higher than the counters say - other than the humpbacks and belugas. The beluga misrepresentation I believe to be completely political as there is a faction trying to close beluga hunting and form "critical beluga habitat" area, including all of Cook Inlet, which will give an excuse to pretty much lock down Cook Inlet developement as they see fit. The humpback misrepresentation, I want to believe to be a function of the counters not knowing. If they are protecting these things by deliberately understating their count, It will hurt their cause, IMO.
    One example of biologists deliberately misrepresenting marine mammal numbers to some personal, unfathomable purpose, is the foremost Stellar sea lion biologist, Richard Merrick, telling me when I asked him why he doesn't include orca predation on sea lions in his count, point blank, "It's insignificant. It doen't matter." We were at the time inserting tracking devices in young lions while orca were circling a haulout or rookery in the Eastern Aleutians (it is not in question that orca are doing very well in the area, in fact I believe, all of Alaska). At the time, the thought for the sea lion decline was that adults were fine, juvies were fine (still on milk), but the teenagers were in decline (probably because the climatic change in aleutians caused capelin to severly decline (adults are more likely to feed on pollack).
    These guys simply refuse to look at natural causes - it is always man's fault in their eyes and there is always the possibility with some (not Richard) that if there is a problem, their job continues. Marine mammals are one thing I have some insight into - I have a friend, Jack Lentfer, Selected Marine Mammals of Alaska, who is the foremost expert on polar bears and an acquaintance, Richard Merrick, with sea lions (and, of course, many other supposed "experts". I knew a whale expert once that studied 'em at some eastern university, worked a summer as a guide on a New York tour boat, actually having seen "a few" in her words, then got hired for a summer long vacation in the Aleutians aboard our research ship). I don't know what it is about these type people but they definately look at things thru a different colored lense.
    I realize that, by its nature, this thread shud not have me on it - so I'll leave y'all alone now.
     
  9. variverrunner
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    variverrunner Junior Member

    Mark775

    Thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions. I have never been to your part of the World (yet) and I know nothing about commercial fishing. I am always interested in learning more about things from someone with direct experince.

    Thanks again

    Allan
     
  10. Tevens
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    Tevens Junior Member

    anti whaling is not a question that you should ask your diet. just because a whale swims in the sea as does a fish, does not mean that they are similar. would you think its wrong if hunters started hunting primates from the jungle? whales are extremely intelligent. do you think that a fish hurts like a whale does?

    anyway this is not an argument for a boat forum.

    what about the anti-whaling boat?
    i did not intend the design to incorporate random little "add ons" which are there to help prevent whaling. i was looking for a good primary design. my previous idea was to base to similar to one of the old war torpedo boats but obviously with a more modern back-bone.
     
  11. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    would you think its wrong if hunters started hunting primates from the jungle?

    Guess you have never been to the south side of Chicago,anywhere in Newark NJ or to Detroit at dusk.

    FF
     
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  12. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Stick around. You have valuable thoughts to contribute.
     
  13. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Thganks Hoyt, et.al.. I'll contribute to the anti-whaling aspect now. I believe just the way that the Sea Shepherd fools are doing it now is the way to go. A small fast boat, weird designs, etc., are a joke. The only way to make it happen is with surplus older boats big enuf to stay a little weather. That ocean is not for play and those people, especially the supremely incompetent Paul Watson, are lucky to have not killed someone. A few older boats with professional hired crew wud be effective. When they ram a whaler or try to entangle its wheel, it garners sympathy for the whaler - Anybody that lives the sea cannot stand to see them cross the line into endangering the crew of another boat. This theatric, I feel, really does hurt the Sheperd's cause. When the knuckleheads cut their thumb off, break a lady's back, capsize the skiff, get lost, go to one of the most remote areas of the world with barely-working RADAR, and such, it absolutely is entertainment for professional mariners and is the reason it is one of the most-watched shows wherever mariners exist. I have heard of a barfull of guys watching and drinking...and rooting for somebody to get hurt! We keep it on as background here every time it is not a rerun - my teenage daughters are on the edge of their seats rooting for the Japanese. Professional crew just getting in the way and video-taping and educating from their standpoint wud do much more for your cause. The crew of that Sea Sheperd boat could be any worthless bunch of hippies at any coffee shop or natural food store I know up here, and people are so sick of smelling 'em it is a natural to root against them.
    In short, how much money does one have? Buy that many older seaworthy big boats (150 or 200ft'ers). A new design won't garner the sympathy. smaller boats are out of their league and lucky to not be killed (there are smaller boats that ply this type of water (North Sea, Arctic Ocean, Antarctic Ocean, Bering Sea), the Karina is one I know (I tried to find a picture and culdn't but it is a North Sea design of 70'), but they have to bolt every time another front is coming. Imagine a seventy footer in this junk:

    lovlyakrzz03.jpg

    Showing whales being killed is a bloody, heartwrenching thing for some. That wud be all that is necessary in the long-term if it were not for the fact that the Paul Watson fools are in it for the excitement and their own glorification.
     
  14. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Nice picture Mark!

    In some corners of the world even a nice autumn breeze, like this one, can scare the **** out of many.

    I guess you have been on a much bigger boat here? Say 85ft?

    Regards
    Richard
     

  15. Raggi_Thor
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    Raggi_Thor Nav.arch/Designer/Builder

    Back to topic :)
    (I don't agree with you regarding whales, they are beautiful creatures, but so are deer and foxes also, here is Wikipedia on intelligence:

    )

    So, back to topic (again), what do want an anti whaling boat to do?
    Scare the whales away?
    Go in the way?
    Making cool films?
    Destroy whaling boats or their equipments?
     
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