Design a pleasure canal barge in aluminum alloy with diesel-electric propulsion

Discussion in 'Projects & Proposals' started by Rob Hellier, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Mark,
    Indeed!!...and that's the whole point of an SOR...it starts the conversation to "narrow" the objectives of a debate into an actual working proposal, where the implications of such, are understood from the start.
    The implications of being registered as "passenger" are indeed significant - but, until that conversation occurs, it is unknown whether this is a real requirement or merely a misuse of terminology. But..without the SOR it is hard to start such a conversation. Good catch :cool:
     
  2. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    The only use of "passenger" in the SOR is in:
    The layout of the vessel will include a significant “pilothouse” and open deck/cabintop areas. It will encourage owners and guests to remain on/in the upper part of the vessel for most of their active hours. This promotes contact between passengers, raises situational awareness and gives better appreciation of the surroundings. There is always something interesting to be seen in canals and inland waterways!
    Nothing about how the boat will be registered.

    It would be useful for the SOR to state what sets of regulations the proposed vessel would need to comply with - not the details but for example "Canadian regulations for recreational vessels".
     
  3. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    In what countries is "passenger" used exclusively in connection with commercial craft and is never used in connection with recreational craft?
     
  4. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    That is the purpose of the SOR - what is the design set to satisfy.
    But those unfamiliar would not necessarily realise this is a major design requirement that must be satisfied and thus the vessel must account for - hence it is a good start.
     
  5. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    What are the implications of being over 15 meters in length?
     
  6. M&M Ovenden
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    M&M Ovenden Senior Member

    In Canada registration is a bit easier, if you want to be commercial the small vessel regulations apply. I think this LOA is used in other countries also as a break point. It's an arbitrary line in the sand, but you might as well be 20cm under, rather than 62 cm over....
    Cheers,
    Mark
     
  7. Rob Hellier
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    Rob Hellier Junior Member

    We toyed with the idea of commercializing this vessel but it started to complicate the design and in the end we decided to just keep it for our own use. Friends and family will keep us busy enough!
     
  8. Rob Hellier
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    Rob Hellier Junior Member

    I've been trying to get back to this project but have been short handed in the engine room for a week so it's been work, eat, sleep. Nevertheless, I've now uploaded a revised SOR.
    Main changes are:
    • We dropped out a cabin, now down to owner's cabin and guest cabin. Wanted to make more common space.
    • After more research on canal boats, I realized I had not specified the cooling system. Looks like the majority of canal boats are keel cooled and dry exhaust, given that they operate in waters that are often silty, weedy and strewn with plastic bags, etc., water intakes will quickly get fouled. Keel coolers are definitely COOL, especially as I believe I can get them integrated into the aluminum hull construction at less cost than buying one and installing it after the fact (yes? No?). I was much more wary of the dry exhaust requirement but after some more research I'm comfortable with it now. Obviously, lots of thought must go into insulation, vibration damping and structural support.
    Opinions, contrary or otherwise, are always welcome. Next post I'm uploading some preliminary scaled drawings (views and principle sections) of how I'm interpreting my SOR.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Is every item in the SOR of equal importance to the success of the vessel?
     
  10. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Is the cooling system type a requirement or a solution?
     
  11. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    That's all you need to do now - produce a preliminary design based upon the SOR. Then run the numbers of weight/stability and see if she floats, floats up right and floats on the draft you desire. If not repeat the loop.
    If after all this it "works" in the preliminary stage - then cost the design based on that SOR.

    Then you'll know what you're aiming at and more importantly it is feasible within your budget.....:rolleyes:
     
  12. Rob Hellier
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    Rob Hellier Junior Member

    Drawings, at last!
    I'm working with rudimentary tools and could only take a pic of these with my phone. Please forgive me if they are hard to read. Let me know if they are and I'll try to see if I can scan them somewhere on my ship.

    My design hinges on the efficient use of the spaces surrounding the engine room and underneath the pilothouse. Since the pilothouse has raised floor areas on port, aft and stbd sides (due to plinth under galley cabinets and dinette seating, I was able to get enough headroom and width under these to make useful voids for the port hallway/workshop and the stbd heads and showers. The owner's cabin aft is quite spacious and can fit a queen mattress (though I'll probably opt for a Double to give me more standing room. It has an escape hatch above the mattress and hull portholes. Probably another small openable porthole on transom.

    The floor level of the owners cabin, port hallway/workshop and stbd heads and owners shower are 12" lower than the rest of the lower cabin.

    The pilothouse is the heart of the boat, with long galley on port side, dinette for 4-6 people on stbd and the helm station on stbd side. Companionway to aft, where there is seating on top of raised lazarettes. The boxes along the aft pilothouse bulkhead is for a garden (wife's requirement. She will only support this project if she can grow herbs and flowers when she's on the boat). Deck slopes slightly aft, while cabintop slopes a bit more aggressively fwd. Provision for solar on cabintop (est. 2kW), mast at fwd end. hatches and portholes at key locations for ventilation and light. There are two built-in lazarettes up fwd as well for fenders lines and such.

    Back below, once you descend the stair from the pilothouse, there's a computer nook/chart table on port side at end of hallway. On Stbd side you have the common head and separate shower. There's a freezer at the foot of the stair for rapid access from the galley. I've tried to make the central corridor as useful as possible by putting in the laundry nook and opening it up to the stores "locker" which is more accurately an open, multipurpose area. It will likely be full of toys when we're in coastal waters (kayak, sailing dingy, dive gear, bicylces etc. These can get soooo in the way on deck when you're in a seaway). Besides some shelving for smaller stuff, I'll come up with some kind of safety netting and tiedowns to keep the clumsier things in check. Once were docked or anchored however, and the toys get out on the water/land, this space can be adapted to anything. The guest cabin has a double bed, desk and lockers, with large escape hatch above and porthole in cabintop side wall.
    In the bow is the entertainment area with seating facing a TV wall and bar behind, on port side. Hull portholes and an escape hatch should give plenty of light and views of surroundings.

    Tankage as indicated. This might be a bit stern heavy? I was thinking to put the battery bank just at the foot of the stair to minimize the length of cables to the engine room but these could be moved fwd to balance the vessel if need be.

    The engine room has standing room just in a couple spots but otherwise one will have to hunch to get around. There's lots of space for whatever we need to put in there though. Fortunately with the diesel-electric set-up, I won't need to have a gennie. Access to ER from port side hallway. Direct access to workbench so no need to drag oily/dirty things around the boat to work on them.

    Comments and suggestions are welcome. If you want something to focus on, my big concerns at this point are:
    • The bow entry. How to make this less resistant to moving through water? I've added a step chine high up to reduce the volume below. Not sure if this will achieve anything or just a waste of time.
    • The rudder. I'd like to keep it fairly simple. Does it appear to be large enough to control this vessel? Would I be advised to consider something larger? Even with the drop of the skeg below the flat bottom (@ 2.5' draft), I'm still only 3.5' draft, so I could go a bit deeper still if the rudder is thought to be too puny.
    • Keelcoolers. Any suggestions on how to integrate them into the hull, preferably as near as possible to the engine? What is an efficient layout of the divisions within a keel cooler? Can a keel cooler work when it is laying horizontal on the hull bottom or am I much better off to have it located along the angled chines that make up the turn of the bilge?
    • The dry exhaust stack: I've seen some folding stacks which look pretty robust. Thoughts? How much void space/insulation will I need to reserve around a exhaust stack that comes up into the pilothouse? I was thinking that the block between the dinnette and helm station where I'm proposing the stack to be located could be a locker to put wet gear to dry out quickly. Makes good use of the heat from the stack.
    • The multichine hull: Am I wasting money to have two chines for the turn of the bilge? Would one be just as efficient through the water, given that my proposed top speed is 10 kts? Should I consider a single chine amidships, transitioning to a double chine only in the bow to give a cleaner entry?
    • Is a top speed of 10 kts too ambitious or not ambitious enough, given the dimensions/displacement of the vessel?
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Rob Hellier
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    Rob Hellier Junior Member

    I 'd say it's a requirement. I don't want to ruin a new $15,000 engine with a 5 cent plastic bag. But I am open to suggestions if there are alternative points of view/solutions that are persuasive. The fact that so many canal boats use keel coolers and dry exhausts are a caution for me.
     
  14. Rob Hellier
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    Rob Hellier Junior Member

    Awesome, thanks. Time to put my Excel spreadsheet skills to work methinks...
     

  15. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    So the requirement is engine cooling is not sensitive to trash in the water. Keel coolers are one solution to that requirement. There may be others.

    Why the concern over details of the keel coolers at this phase of the design? Do the details strongly affect other aspects of the design? How do the details of the keel coolers compare to the scantlings of the hull and deck in importance for the initial arrangement?
     
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