Design a pleasure canal barge in aluminum alloy with diesel-electric propulsion

[M&M Ovenden]

Hi Rob,

Where in Ontario are you located ? Just wondering if you were close by (Eastern Ontario) - could be worth dropping by our *boatyard* for a visit. www.mimijane.ca

Cheers,
Mark

 

[DCockey]

As Ad Hoc suggested start the SOR with what is important to you. Simple phrases rather than specific numbers are sufficient for the first iteration. Then work on translating the phrases into measurable items.

Nigel Calder has researched various hybrid boat propulsion systems and written about his research in Professional Boatbuilder magazine. An index is available at Subject Index - Professional BoatBuilder Magazine https://www.proboat.com/subject-index/ Free access to back issues through 2017 is available at Professional BoatBuilder Back Issue Archive https://pbbackissues.advanced-pub.com/

 

[Rob Hellier]

Hi,

Hi Rob,

Where in Ontario are you located ? Just wondering if you were close by (Eastern Ontario) - could be worth dropping by our *boatyard* for a visit. www.mimijane.ca

Cheers,
Mark

I'm located a bit north of Toronto. I'm sailing out to Bay of Quinte in mid-August with my sailboat, hoping to make it to Kingston. how close is that to you?

 

[Rob Hellier]

As Ad Hoc suggested start the SOR with what is important to you. Simple phrases rather than specific numbers are sufficient for the first iteration. Then work on translating the phrases into measurable items.

Nigel Calder has researched various hybrid boat propulsion systems and written about his research in Professional Boatbuilder magazine. An index is available at Subject Index - Professional BoatBuilder Magazine https://www.proboat.com/subject-index/ Free access to back issues through 2017 is available at Professional BoatBuilder Back Issue Archive https://pbbackissues.advanced-pub.com/

Hi DCockey,

I've already read some of Calder's articles. I'll read some more. Thanks for the link to Professional BoatBuilder. Wow, what a resource that is!
I'm working on the SOR as I write. Also doing some 1/4"= 1' orthogonals, sections and perspective sketches to test my growing SOR to see how much I'm stretching my imagination and ability to fit everything. I've got about 6 workable basic concepts so far. Hoping to narrow it down a bit now. I like to work with traditional paper and pencil until I've got a pretty solid solution, before proceeding to CAD. Saves me a lot of time.

BTW I'm looking for a CAD system that suits boat design. I've used Intergraph and Solidworks for years. Both have surface and solid modelling cababilities which I think is going to be important in desigining a vessel. I really like them both but I no longer have access to these through an employer. Buying a licence from either costs many $1000s. So I've been scouting and test driving less expensive/free software like FreeCad and others. Haven't been overly impressed so far. Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[M&M Ovenden]

Hi Rob,

We are about a 1.5 hour drive from Kingston. Murielle has ended up using Rhino for her CAD work for our boat. It's not very expensive when you consider the benefits. She used prosurf 3 for the hull design. NEWAVESYS Products Page http://www.newavesys.com/products.htm

Cheers,
Mark

 

[DCockey]

Rhino is popular for boat design. A Rhino perpetual Rhino license is $995 US or less from some resellers. Buy - Rhinoceros https://www.rhino3d.com/sales/north-america/United_States Excellent free support is available 24/7 through the Rhino Forum McNeel Forum https://discourse.mcneel.com/ and from the Rhino office during Seattle business hours. Rhino Support https://www.rhino3d.com/support Naval architecture calculations can be done with basic Rhino but the Orca3D plug-in simplifies the calculations and has other features. Orca3D Naval Architecture Software | Marine Design Plug-in for Rhino https://orca3d.com/

 

[Rob Hellier]

Hi Rob,

We are about a 1.5 hour drive from Kingston. Murielle has ended up using Rhino for her CAD work for our boat. It's not very expensive when you consider the benefits. She used prosurf 3 for the hull design. NEWAVESYS Products Page http://www.newavesys.com/products.htm

Cheers,
Mark

Thanks for the tip on Prosurf. I've just downloaded the version for strictly chine hulls for evaluation.

I'll be in touch once I know my itinerary for the cruise to Bay of Quinte. Maybe we can meet up. Would love to see your boat and hear how you and your companion shared the project work.

 

[Rob Hellier]

Rhino is popular for boat design. A Rhino perpetual Rhino license is $995 US or less from some resellers. Buy - Rhinoceros https://www.rhino3d.com/sales/north-america/United_States Excellent free support is available 24/7 through the Rhino Forum McNeel Forum https://discourse.mcneel.com/ and from the Rhino office during Seattle business hours. Rhino Support https://www.rhino3d.com/support Naval architecture calculations can be done with basic Rhino but the Orca3D plug-in simplifies the calculations and has other features. Orca3D Naval Architecture Software | Marine Design Plug-in for Rhino https://orca3d.com/

I had a trial version of Rhino but wasn't overly impressed but I probably never gave it enough effort to learn it. Now that I know it's used a lot in the boat design community I'll give it another try and maybe make more use of their forums and online help

 

[M&M Ovenden]

Hi,

Yea, Rhino is a parametric type software, so it's very different. While we used prosurf, we did that a long time ago (before using Rhino)... now I think we would just buy the Orca Rhino plugin. Don't underestimate the value of a complete 3D model, it will save money down the road. It lets you "build" the boat before any material cost.

Cheers,
Mark

 

[DCockey]

Yea, Rhino is a parametric type software, so it's very different.

Rhino is not parametric.

 

[M&M Ovenden]

Rhino is not parametric.

whoops, yup, typo.... I did mean to say NOT.

 

[Rob Hellier]

Hi,

Yea, Rhino is a parametric type software, so it's very different. While we used prosurf, we did that a long time ago (before using Rhino)... now I think we would just buy the Orca Rhino plugin. Don't underestimate the value of a complete 3D model, it will save money down the road. It lets you "build" the boat before any material cost.

Cheers,
Mark

I'm used to parametric modellers like Solidworks and Intergraph and have been working with 3D CAD since the late 80's (Ooopps I just dated myself). This is probably why I get frustrated with software that is not parametric. Also I haven't been working with 3D CAD systems for a few years now (OK I've been using Sketchup a lot lately for architectural work but it can't do what I need it to do for hull design) so I'm feeling rusty - and frustrated! So for now it's pencil to vellum like in the old days.

 

[Rob Hellier]

So, here's my Statement of Requirements for the newly named "Compact Canal (CC) Cruiser".

I've tried to say what I want, not to get too much into the weeds about how to achieve it, especially is we are at the top of the design spiral and it's too early to get into specific technical requirements. Comments and suggestions are welcome.

Next step is to produce some 3-view scaled orthogonals and sketch perspectives. I'm using 1/4" =1' scale right now. Seems like a reasonable scale to start with?

 

[Ad Hoc]

Seems like a reasonable scale to start with?

Yup. A too detailed in some areas, for now, but otherwise that's it!

So what you need to do now, is to get this drawn up as a preliminary design and get someone or a yard to cost this up for you. Then starts the endless compromises to get what you want at the price you can afford.
Good luck

 

[M&M Ovenden]

Hi ,
One thing that caught my eye is the use of the terms "pleasure craft" and "passengers". In my mind "passengers" is a term used for commercial craft. If you are thinking about a commercial operation that is a big thing to state from the start. Good call keeping it under 15 meters... We didn't , and are a few cm over....

Cheers,
Mark