demountable catamaran for the caribbean and south pacific

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by cloudsrule9, Jun 10, 2016.

  1. cloudsrule9
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    cloudsrule9 Junior Member

    Im not in disagreement with safety being the most important thing. As for why aviation and cruising have a different approach to safety its probably a cultural thing. Life was more risky when people started sailing thousands of years ago so the risks of the sea where not that great when compared to the risks on land (in short either way you where going to die young). Lots of people didn't really have a choice, join the navy or go to the poorhouse/starve. This risk tolerance has been preserved, to some extent. By contrast, the aviation industry started when life was much safer and targeted rich people did have a choice as if to fly or not. Therefore there was a need for a much higher level of safety.

    There are many more reasons: one of the biggest is that boats go all over the place. Generally planes stick to airstrips or runways, which a reasonable safe environment to do there most dangerous manoeuvre i.e. taking off or landing. Someone generally thinks a bit about airports and puts them in good places (i.e. lack of strong winds, huge cliffs or big bumps). Anchorages on the other hand are often picked for convenience and beauty. All in all air travel is extremely safe, much safer than by car, yacht, train or motorbike. A fairer comparison might be comparing light aircraft to cruising yachts and light aircraft have a reasonable poor safety record. Cruising isn't an industry or at least not in the same way as aviation is. Regulation in cruising is minimal and often opposed by the community. Even the RYA is anti regulation and there is minimal enforcement of the rules that do exist. Most of the fisherman in morecambe bay (where i used to sail) have VHF radios but few have licenses. You don't need a licence to use a sailing vessel in the UK or many other parts of the world, but you do for a train, plane, car or motorbike. Even fishing rods (in the uk atleast) are more regulated in the UK than sea going vessels. While i'm not a pilot i'm guessing that you wouldn't get far if you just turn up at an airport with a plane but no licence. Turn up a yacht club and they will let you race...

    The odd obsession with speed is also probably something that makes cruising dangerous. Even the few sailing lessons i have had seemed to focus a lot on this. Really stressing rigs and people to get an extra 0.5 of a knot. "You'll go faster if you sheet the sail out a bit more, this should be a run not a reach" to which i replied, "yeh but i have more chance of accidentally gybing if i do that, ill lose more time in recovering from that". If we had a faster boat i bet he still would have wanted that extra half a knot. If you push things as fast as they will go then it shouldn't a shock when small errors, like not noticing a slight wind shift, become big ones when the boom snaps across the deck hitting people or braking the traveler. This was professional paid instruction on a RYA approved course. This may go some way to explaining cruisers attitude to safety, some of them are just following what they where taught.

    Anyway, when you look at the state of play is a surprise that there aren't more deaths. You asked and that's my take on it.

    Judging risk is very hard. Even with years of practice you still get it wrong. I'm just after a boat which will help me reduce the frequency and severity of mistakes.
     
  2. cloudsrule9
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    cloudsrule9 Junior Member

    An interesting concept. Not sure i have the cash or desire to carry a F-350 around. Those are massive, at least by british standards. Still i would give me massive payload potential if i left the truck behind. Does it exist as anything other than a computer model?
     
  3. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    Nope, and it barely even exists as a CAD file. Very rough concept.

    Could of course be scaled down.

    Maybe about 30ft hulls and minivan that would all fit in a container.
     
  4. sigurd
    Joined: Jun 2004
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    sigurd Pompuous Pangolin

    Just space the stations out a bit, it doesn't have to get 8 times as heavy?
    Take the 26' cat, lengthen the bows 7 feet and the stern 5 feet, what else has to be done? How much would it weigh, with infusion? How much extra work time? If it's too heavy, maybe make one shorter and sail only on one tack :idea:
    Rob, "Solutions: Make the boat sail and motor well enough not to have to motor sail, "
    Can't the 40F sail on the other tack?
     
  5. tane
    Joined: Apr 2015
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    tane Junior Member

    I guess there should be plenty of seaworthy multis that fit into a 40' container; how about Tennant cats, Crowther twiggies, Farrier tris,.. generally open bridgedeck cats shouldn't be too difficult to fiddle into a container, maybe not hulls side by side but stacked vertically/laterally? launching the boat in Papeete shouldn't be any difficulty for a 35 to 40' cat/tri, they built the keke ferries locally & Papeete was a busy port with lots of faicilities when we last visited (97)
    sailing to the Tuamotus isn't that big a deal from papeete, boats do it all the time. Marquesas is going to be more work...
     
  6. cloudsrule9
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    cloudsrule9 Junior Member


    I had a look at tennants cats. I quite like the Turissimo - 9. Anyone got any experience with with these?
     
  7. tane
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    tane Junior Member

    wonder if one bigger than the turissimo 9 wouldn't fit...
     
  8. cloudsrule9
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    cloudsrule9 Junior Member

    I think the 10 meter version would probably fit. Not sure about the mast for either but masts can come in two sections. Both look interesting
     
  9. tane
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    tane Junior Member

    a crowther twiggy would probably be less nervewracking & more comfortable to doublehand offshore...not sure...
     
  10. catsketcher
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    catsketcher Senior Member

    I know an F27 has been put into a container. You need to check the doors of the container - they are the real squeeze point.
     
  11. cloudsrule9
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    cloudsrule9 Junior Member

    I think the doors are 7'6". I expect, in most cases, the object will be able to be tilted a little bit to get it in if it is slighter wider than 7'6" but still less than 8'(or whatever the insides of a box are). This will be a pain and probably involve making some sort of wooded cradle but a couple of days and a few hundred quid of lumber should sort that out. The other option is a "curtain" container which is basically just the frame and the a bottom (so no metal sides or top). Then we can just drop the boat in using a crane and put "curtains" around it, which i think are a bit like the stuff that lorries have over them. Im hoping to avoid this option, but im told it exists.
     
  12. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    If you haven't already decided on what you want (to build), here are a few more demountable plywood cats designed by Bernd Kohler that might be in the ballpark.

    DUO 660

    KD 650

    DUO 800S

    KD 105
     
  13. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Just looked at this subject briefly, and don't know what your time frame and budget requirements are.

    I might suggest you put away the idea of building a boat, and the container idea for now. Perhaps just find a good used vessel that you can do some of your own little improvements on, and get out there now.

    Here's one I found:
    http://www.multihulls-world.com/us/classified-ads-used-catamaran-for-sale-trimaran/011102-18002-MARAM-36.html
    ...centerboards and looks to be kick-up rudders. nice 36 length, reasonable price....

    another
    http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/60172
     
  14. magentawave
    Joined: Jul 2013
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    magentawave Senior Member

    I have never heard of the Marams before but that's a nice looking design. I don't see evidence of daggerboards or centerboards in the photos. Does anyone know if it has keels?
     

  15. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    I never had heard of that name before either,...just happened across it during a quick search of used cats.
    The text on that vessel mentioned centerboards.
     
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