Delta and Bugel Anchors

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by JCaprani, Nov 24, 2011.

  1. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    This page is so long and full of junk that I couldnt load it. An anchor falls to the bottom on its side..then as you pull the fluke drags and pulls the anchor in..I have no idea what he is talking about. Ive never used a bugle anchor. I always use Bruce.
     
  2. Northman
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    Location: Norway

    Northman Junior Member

    John,
    you could have a look here: http://www.metalboatbuilding.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=435
    and here: http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/topic,2207.0.html.
    I have never build an anchor, but have gathered some info over the years. Send me a pm if you want to have a look.
    Walter
     
  3. Easy Rider
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    Easy Rider Senior Member

    I found the anchor at the very end. It's not of standard geometry at all. The attach point of the shank is very high and only a tad fwd of the tip of the fluke. It may not set at all as laying on it's side where it should be w this type of anchor the fluke tip is much too close to going sideways. It's like trying to plow w the plow attached sideways when best would be from straight ahead. One may do well to copy this design and use the shank geometry of a Spade. By shank geometry I am referring to the location of the attach point of the end of the shank relative to the location of the fluke. On the cat site anchor that would mean moving the attach point fwd considerably and down some. If you ever got his anchor to set it should hold very well but setting is in serious question ......I think.
    Michael,
    There is so many claws available and at low prices ordering a claw makes a lot of sense. Do'nt know if you were implying that but I'm say'in.
     
  4. eyschulman
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    eyschulman Senior Member

    What you need is a curved pointed shovel blade- a shank attached at the correct angle(take from the real thing) and a way to make it set- a roll bar as in Manson and Ronca or weighted tip as in Spade. I would think a reasonable craftsman with a few pictures and angle measurement could come up with a working anchor.
     
  5. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    So many anchors. They all work. I notice that the " Chinese' Bruce anchors are two piece welded together. Should be easy to build. Do a bit of googling and you will find precise Bruce anchor dimensions.
     
  6. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    The blacksmith or fabricator is the one violating the patent laws, since they are making and selling it. Anchors can be virtually useless unless with a small change in design. A danforth , for example, can lose more than 50% of the holding power with a 2 degree angle change.
     
  7. JCaprani
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    JCaprani Junior Member

    Anchor

    Thanks for all the interesting posts. The plan is only needed for a one-off for one man who wouldn't be in the market for one of the expensive branded anchors anyway as they are all too costly.

    I also must say I can't give a damn about 'intellectual property' which I think is a sham notion, and one which had no real place in pre-capitalist human societies. There is little new under the sun, and every new design or product builds on the shared intellectual heritage of all humanity. People get so uptight about others 'stealing' their ideas, but nothing comes from a vacuum and every inventor owes a huge debt to predecessors both known and unknown.
     
  8. sabahcat
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    sabahcat Senior Member

    Just for you

    [​IMG]

    On a 50ft 8500kg cat I have
    a 35lb Sarca as a stern
    a 55lb delta as a spare (if I have to dump the Manson)
    and a whopping 125lb Manson Supreme as my primary
     
  9. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    DCockey Senior Member

    So no need to pay designers any royalties?
     
  10. JCaprani
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    JCaprani Junior Member

    Pay your designer for a detailed set of plans that give instructions and information on materials, technique and construction, with support available by telephone or a chance to consult in person.

    Real businesses have a product or a service to sell their customers. IP is nonsense; be the first to market, or be the one who makes things simplest for your customer, or the one who gives the most comprehensive backup, or uses the highest quality materials. There are so many ways to distinguish your business from others.

    I don't believe anyone can really 'own' an idea. A cursory scan of many of the greats in the fields of various arts and sciences will show I'm not alone on this.
     
  11. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    So John, what's stopping you and your friend from just making a copy then.

    You don't have a plan to build from. That's what you're after, right?

    That's the intellectual property you need.

    But, you don't give a damn about intellectual property.

    So, you're stuck.

    Just wing it, how hard can it be?

    I'm sure it'll work, that intellectual property can't be worth anything, right?

    -Tom
     
  12. JCaprani
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    JCaprani Junior Member

    Hey Tom,

    I hear what you're saying, but I think you're deliberately misunderstanding me. My disagreement with IP is more philosophical/political than practical, like the open-source vs proprietary models of software copyright.

    I do understand that people have the need to protect trade secrets so their business can prosper. I have paid for plans before, but only from sole trader designers who are running their own businesses (I would not want to give a corporate entity money for data) and only when it was clear that the designer would offer support and backup on their plans, which is the real service.

    I have also modified others' plans to suit my own needs and would think it outrageous to try and claim 'ownership' of these changes

    What I disagree with is the idea that anyone can claim unilateral ownership of a piece of information or knowledge, not acknowledging their debt to their ancestors and peers. That's not a new idea, at least 1000 years old and most famously formulated by Newton "If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants."

    It's for this reason that ancient guilds of craftsman existed, like the livery companies of London. Secrets of the trade needed to be protected through organisation and passed on through the generations.

    I would not be the one to break into a designer's office and rifle through their papers. But if through accident, ill fortune or the passage of time, the work makes it into the public domain - then the jig is up, the idea is dust in the wind and the designer must return to their drawing board.

    I'll say it again, be first to market or else distinguish your offering on quality of product or service, all other claims to ownership are insubstantial nonsense.

    This is a ridiculous digression from the original post, can somebody help my buddy in the sticks out and send me a usable plan?
     
  13. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    J Caprani: intellectual property protects the hard work many of us put into our ideas. You talk about it as if one of us wakes up one morning, after a life of lounging around, and suddenly discovered penicillin. The intellectual property laws recognize the time and hard work behind these ideas. I find it offensive that you belittle people that make an effort to create something. Intellectual property is not capitalism. Make an effort and study politics. It favors individuals that work alone and protects them from big concerns.
     
  14. JCaprani
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    JCaprani Junior Member

    The perfect example: penicillin was not 'invented' in the sense we are talking about here. It was already used as a folk remedy for hundreds of years by rubbing mouldy bread on wounds.

    Rather, its mechanism of action was discovered, through the combined work of at least 8 different scientists and their presumably unacknowledged army of lab assistants and graduate students.

    There is little new under the sun, and almost nothing of what we know or have can be honestly attributed to the work of one individual (the 'heroic' view of intellectual endeavour). Knowledge is a collaborative process. Any new idea is the top cheerleader on the pyramid, and will presently be at the bottom supporting others.
     

  15. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    So is digging a ditch. The technology of a shovel is the result of thousands of years of development. Do you work for free? Can I come over and take the food from your pantry? You claim the right to take what others worked for, are you being as generous with your own things?
     
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