deep sea mooring

Discussion in 'Projects & Proposals' started by exp30002, Mar 16, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. exp30002

    exp30002 Previous Member

    What law? Would you please refer to specific law.
    It is against my personal beliefs, and it would be expensive just to buy plastic,
    dump it and leave it. Though the north pacific garbage gyre is exactly that.
    So, the law, if there is any is not being enforced, nor known to those people
    who dump the plastics, but the accusation and the conclusion is a bit far fetched.
    And I do not think, the chinaseapirate is intending to do anything like that,
    nor I think he has enough money to do it.
    I think he is up the the opposite: that is to keep the ocean clean.
  2. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 3,817
    Likes: 153, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 971
    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    These kind of things might make them a little leery of your plan.
    NEWPORT BEACH, CA Oct 19 2017— A hotly contested artificial reef project has officially gone belly up. The combination of tires, plastic and PVC pipes will be removed from the ocean floor as a failed experiment of Rodolphe Streichenberger, who dropped over 1,ooo tires into the Pacific Ocean off of the coast of Newport Beach in the late 1980s. Now, the Coastal Commission has negotiated the cleanup with the Wildlife Health Center School at the University of California, Davis. Kirsten Gilardi, assistant director at the school. Gilardi said it was time to remove the controversial experiment based on studies over the years.

    "There's no native kelp, just a few fish swimming around," she said in a statement. "It's nothing like the diversity and density you'd see on a natural rocky reef off the Southern California coast."

    Newport Nixes Trash-Heap Reef: Divers Remove Tires, Plastic From Ocean

    Osborne Reef - Wikipedia

    It is is on you to not break the law. If you don't know what the law is, it would be best to find out.

  3. chinaseapirate

    chinaseapirate Previous Member

    Well the design calls for animal skin in the original, and it is much less durable than other inflatable ship material. So I figure just a standard inflatable boat material will suffice.

    Its good to know that that the tread alone are only 1.03 specific gravity, I was using 1.3 in the hypothetical yacht platform. This means a $2700 dollar private inflatable (1 PSI) yacht can carry 150,000 tires as opposed to only 15,000. I don't think the 57 x 24 ft yacht has enough footprint to space the numerous tire anchors acceptable for proper anchor line maintenance though. Not a problem. The footprint can easily be spread between multiple yachts spatially separated by solid tires tube, no need for wrapping here- just the strapping.

    I may be getting too far off topic or too far ahead with the ringweave theory but I can't stop visualizing a floating marina 3 1/2miles offshore in Santa Monica bay. Maybe right near where the old Redondo beach fishing barge was ANCHORED. About a 1/2 mile of semi circle three "strand" used tire tire floating breakwater (a 20 ft container of 2 mm EPDM rubber (maybe neoprene if its any better) from China. and then an average of 1/2 mile wide submerged marine forest seaward of the breakwater. All this strung between the breakwater and a couple dozen vanguard indestructible "yachts" 1/4 mile to 1 mile seward of the breakwater. All prospective tenant/owners contribute maintenance only (based upon C *(WLR*WLR + 100* kW of rated engine power +40) /2 XF). C = total salary of "authorized" maintenance techs. WLR is the WEIGHT to length ratio (don't want to penalize carrying capacity plus non arguably determined). rated engine is manufacture claimed engine power ( ie - single 350hsp Yamaha is rated the same as 88 farm motors (220V three phase 13.5 Amp ). XF is the sum of all individual tenant's (including the new applicant) usage rating = WLR*WLR +100*kW. Basically a 20 meter 5000 lbs fishing bangka pays $23.50/month, a Contender39 pays $507.50/month, a longboard w/without surfer pays $20.xx/ month. This should proactively resort the "boating" industry.
  4. exp30002

    exp30002 Previous Member

    The specific "law" is still not stated.
    There is a common mis-belief, that comes from the "nanny state" attitude, if it
    is not allowed, it is against the "law" . California laws apply in California.
    Building a ring weave structure is not equal to dumping tires in the water.
    Ocean ranching was not applied, and kelp growth was not initiated. Picking up the
    tires can still be done. A ring weave technique can be applied to those 1000 tires to
    tie them together and move them out of state waters.

    Tires dumped individually will not work, because the buoyancy of the tires is almost equal to
    neutral buoyancy, so a pile of tires will not stay in a pile under water as it does on dry land.

    Anyways, Newport Beach, Ca, is not the place to start. The writers of the news dramatize
    everything, just like they learned in school to do that. And they get payed for dramatizing
    the news. They do the writing for money, and the dramatization is fake.
    "Fake news" this does not apply.
    This fake news stuff idea was also coined by Noam Chomsky.

    The Joneses in Newport Beach are on their front lawn with a white flag and a sign:
    "We give up, Do not try to keep up with the Joneses."
  5. chinaseapirate

    chinaseapirate Previous Member

    The sunken tire reef has ZERO to do with an attended perfectly navigable yacht or any of its safety requirements. If the OP (or me- or anyone else?) needs a square mile of floating breakwater ATTACHED around his "fragile" PRIVATE YACHT (along with a 1/4 cubic mile of submerged "forest") in order to keep "suspect plastic" from escaping into the pristine Pacific Ocean well that is a good thing:p:cool:!! No?
  6. chinaseapirate

    chinaseapirate Previous Member

    I've been thinking about the sidewalls. Is this where most of the metal is in a standard steel belted radial? Anyways the sidewalls and the treads can be transported/stored much more conveniently the whole tires. The sidewalls alone could be used as flotation/yachts/buoys/breakwater just as well as the treads. Even in a different weave pattern- kind of like a linked necklace once "folded" in half. Cutting the sidewalls of will allow a full truckload by weight of 2500 tires instead of 1000 by volume. It would also allow a real up and running licensed, permitted, everything, tire recycling facility to store a "yachtload" per month of treads and tires in a cheap chainlink fenced "lot" in Wilmington, Ca next door to a 2 adjacent "yards" with a couple of offices made from stacked tires. Combined square footage ...40 x 80 is fine. National City/Chula Vista would have been fine but the whole south bay has been converted to "bird sanctuary" or something since the last time I was there.
  7. exp30002

    exp30002 Previous Member

    "--- "shrink wrap" and heat seam the edges. basically same stuff inflatable boats are made out of flexible PVC ----"

    It seems to me a good idea for a vessel. Thank you for mentioning it.
  8. exp30002

    exp30002 Previous Member

    "--- running licensed, permitted, everything, tire recycling facility ---"

    Licensed and permitted are the key words where licenses and permissions are necessary.

    So far my activity is fully legal in the state where I live in.
    It is legal to transport 9 tires at a time without a license: I transport maximum 4 tires at a time.
    It is legal to store 499 tires at a time without a license: I have 17 tires at this time.
    When I decide to go larger scale, I have the ways and means to obtain the necessary licenses and
    permissions from the authorities of the state, that I live in (California, USA).
    By the way: I am a United States citizen.
    I fully intend to comply with all rules and regulations. When something is not permitted, I just do not do it.
    For example; I do not enter private land to remove waste tires without permisssion.
    There are enough waste tires on public land in the ditches. I just picked one up today on the way home from work.

    Not to mention, that the only way to get paid for recycling the tires, is to be licensed and permitted.
    And the state not only permits recycling the tires, but the state gives financial incentive to do so.

    If anyone wants to accuse me with breaking the rules and regulations; the burden of proof is on the accuser.
    Innocent until proven guilty. Does that sound familiar?
  9. exp30002

    exp30002 Previous Member

    Wilmington, Ca sounds good. Chula Vista and National City are too close to the border with Mexico,
    it would be easy to drift into the territorial waters of Mexico, and who knows what kind of rules and
    regulations they might come up with. Although if they would confiscate or nationalize a load of tires,
    they are welcome to it after I got the recycling fee. -)))
  10. chinaseapirate

    chinaseapirate Previous Member

    Yeah. I was just case you were ready sooner than later. The haulers have to get rid of their tires, like you say -499 max. They are paying the recyclers to take them, up to 1.25/tire(maybe more that was 2016). Obviously they are getting more than that from the tire stores. A permitted (no charge/fee) "minor waste tire facility" can have 4999 tires on premises as long as they are being actively loaded or unloaded - I'm understanding this as there is somebody there mon-fri 9-5, and there is a trailer and container on the premises somewhere. Next door one could "store" all the boat/FAD "parts" they wanted either in cut up form or whole tires wrapped in plastic under a "beneficial use" permit. Two free permits and two business licenses and one rent. Myself, I would rather get paid to have tires brought to me/us then collect them myself. Even at 75 cents/tire that beats running around town all day collecting, loading and then ultimately reloading, hauling to Nevada, unloading and the reloading to haul them back to California to unload again at a later date. If the whole "yard" gets overstocked then at least they can be hauled out of there 2700 at a time rather than 1000 and one could make multiple trips back to back. At the same time since there is no limit to the amount of inventory which the "boatyard" could could have 20-30,000 tires in the "backyard" and $15,000-$30,000 already collected. I'd bet that over 1/3 of the tires coming in could actually be sold overseas for $8-20 each. Set a record for world longest ship- 1 km long 50 meters wide and 1 meter draft - 200,000 tires. What about big hole saw on a big drill press?
  11. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 3,817
    Likes: 153, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 971
    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    A 0.27 difference in specific gravity gives you a 1000% increase in load capacity? That sounds too good to be true, but then the old adage 'math moves in mysterious ways' makes sense.
  12. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 3,817
    Likes: 153, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 971
    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    There's a difference between shrink wrap and what inflatable boats are made of. Inflatable boat stuff doesn't shrink, which is a good thing because when you buy a 10' inflatable and it shrinks to 5', you'd actually need about 4 of them for the same capacity as boat size/volume is exponential.
    How about snake skin? It's tough enough for boots and boots last for years. I'm pretty sure Florida has no hunting limit on those pythons in the Everglades and they must be waterproof being as they live in swampwater all the time. They're even in a tube shape already.
  13. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 3,817
    Likes: 153, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 971
    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    I thought you weren't going to get permits or licenses?
    The problem with just paying the fine being cheaper than the permit is that it is not always cheaper to begin with, then when/if they catch you, you will still have to pay for the permit. In building permits, they will fine you and make you remove whatever it is you did, at your own expense. Plus, as I think as Chinesepirate stated, with marine questions, usually 'time is of the essence', a legal term, and you get a daily fine on top of everything. In La Crosse, Wi, years ago a sunken houseboat was not a crime, but leaving it there was, and time being of the essence, they fined you $1,000 a day while it was there. So there were no excuses excepted, like 'I'm busy at work, I'll do it next week' or anything. Plus, you had to employ licensed people to do the work so as to do it correctly without inadvertently causing more damage to public property.

    I would guess before the state gave you a license and permit and money to recycle tires, you would have to tell them what you were going to do with them. Seeing as how tires in the ocean has not worked at all so far, has caused massive environmental damage and proven very expensive to remove the tires and rectify the damage they did, getting a permit seems kind of iffy.

    As for the burden of proof being on the accuser, innocent until proven guilty and all that, if you yourself don't have any idea what the law is, proving you guilty could be extremely easy to do. There could be a law right now prohibiting tires in the ocean. You don't know. If there is, and you do it, and someone objects, well, you can see where that could go very quickly with no effort at all.

    Speaking of objections, weren't environmentalists invented in California? Aren't they everywhere in large herds?
  14. exp30002

    exp30002 Previous Member

    "There could be a law right now prohibiting tires in the ocean."

    There could be laws against free speech, but there is not, at least not in this country.
    so, to operative term here is "could be" hehe-))),
    Where? Could there be laws in the US to prevent something in the Philippines?
    I could try to explain the ideas of sovereignty and of jurisdiction.

    "I thought you weren't going to get permits or licenses?"
    Yes, people have lots of strange ideas. Permits and licenses are yes, where licenses and permits are required.

    "Speaking of objections, weren't environmentalists invented in California? Aren't they everywhere in large herds?"
    Yes, and you seem to be one of them, SamSam. All new religions to be invented in the State of California.

    So, Samsam, no use fear mongering, that is just monkeybusiness.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018

  15. exp30002

    exp30002 Previous Member

    Hauling loads back and forth between states is probably not good.
    Building a floating something with ring weaving is possible.
    Going large scale is preferable. Things are progressing and looking good.

    The wrapping is probable a good idea.
    A wild idea would be to make a steel container ballasted with a keel and
    fill large part of it inside with polyurethane foam, so it would not sink, even
    if it gets full of water. Bulkheads inside the container might be good too.
    To paint it with some paint like, pickup truck bed lining paint thing, inside and out.
    Than wrap it with two layer of ring woven mats and
    to fill the empty spaces of the mat with polyurethane foam, and wrap it with the
    shrink wrap and cut doors on the top, and put a mast and forstay, backstay etc...
    And use it as a sailboat out there in an open ocean mooring field. It would be like a tank.
    Specially if the keel is manganese compound concrete, and the keel would be outside of the mat with
    connecting concrete pillars at the wholes in the mat. Are there steel containers in the ocean?
    Can I pick them up for free?
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.