Dealing with pirates

There's difference?

 

Wasnt unarmed? Doesnt think of my environment right now as very crowded with weapons, but its a kitchen... several knives... several chairs.... each chair equals 4 lethal chairlegs...( ) uhumm I'm heavily armed here in my castle.

I'd still be an underdog in any hypothetical close contact combat with any soldier from any army.

I understand the Israelis wish to have control of the weapons in the area, considered their experience.

But:

• The blokade is not "legalized" by the international comunity, in any way.
• The Israelis have rejected to consider international control of cargo going in to Gaza.
• The ships were in international waters, where only the "flag" have any juridiction over the ship/ crew/ cargo/ passengers. (Hey, they could even be burning Norwegian flags, I'd not like it, but I'd have no right to do anything to it (It'd be tempting to spray the deck with firewater though...)
• The fact, mentioned above here, international waters, makes the boarding of the ship, with armed personnell, the first crime against international laws, in this case.
• The response, of the poeple aboard can be discussed to be clearly "over the top", but as it seem; the weapons they had were mostly gathered ad hoc, in situ (can still be deadly/ dangorous, ref my own kitchen)
• There are other ways to easyly stop/ slow down a ship (but still to be considered a crime, if done in international waters).
• The Israelis have rejected the suggestion of an international investigation (something to hide?)
• As it seem, right now... Maybe the "attack" done on Israeli soldiers in fact would be considered "self defence" in an international court...
• That also add kidnapping to the list.
• Piracy (if the cargo/ passengers/ crew doesnt end up in the destinated port, within reasonable time).

Another fact that can be a sign of the situation; the numbers of injured/ dead
The convoy: 9 dead, a (rather large) uncertain number of injured.
The Israeli soldiers: 2 seriously wounded, 5 wounded.

So, was this an act of propaganda from the Palestinians?
Yes, definetively...

And no... Here's a list of things not permitted (and permitted) to take in to the Gaza area:
http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ItemsGazaStrip060510.pdf

Try to rebuild that area with what the Israelis accept/ allow....

But my general attitude is such; I' sceptic to any man/ woman directing a intended weapon against any other being with the intention to inflict any harm to that other person... No matter colour, race, religion, income...


Another thing:

San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflic
SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT
Neutral merchant vessels
67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;​

So.. "reasonable grounds".... the ships were inspected by Turkish representatives prior to departure checking for weapons. No weapons found, prior to departure. That also makes the boarding of the ships in international waters a crude statement of untrust towards one of the few (muslim) countries that Israels have any regular/ diplomatic contact with.....

 

Might as well throw this into the mix:

Associated Press

JERUSALEM - The wife of a U.S. citizen seriously injured in a Palestinian suicide bombing seven years ago says he has died as a result of complications from his wounds.

Julie Averbach says her husband, 44-year-old New Jersey native Steve Averbach, died in his sleep on Thursday.

A Hamas suicide bomber killed seven people and wounded 20 when he detonated his explosives on a packed commuter bus in Jerusalem in May 2003, at the height of the Palestinian intifada uprising.

Averbach was hit by shrapnel and paralyzed from the neck down.

Julie Averbach said on Friday that her husband was periodically hospitalized in the years since the attack and that his condition had worsened in recent months.

 

And that bus was in international waters?
My opinion is still; there's still blood on some hands on both sides of the fence....

And both sides use the weapons available... I do not think that a suicide mission is the preferred action, if there were any other means available that could measure up to the intended/ wanted effect.

 

Genesis 12:3 King James Bible
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

 

Did I say it was in international waters? It's a shining example of why the Israelis want to keep the border sealed, and not let anything through that they haven't personally inspected for weapons and explosives. If you were an Israeli, would you trust a Turk to do that for you?

One problem is that the Palestinians actually prefer soft targets: they'd rather hit civilians, women and children than military personnel and installation. How often do their suicide bombers target military personnel and bases, instead of going onto buses or into restaurants?

Whether that's dishonorable or not depends on your point of view, I suppose. But it's definitely counterproductive; all it does is make the Israelis hate them as much as they hate the Israelis.

As a veteran myself, I can tell you this: I don't hold a grudge against the people who were shooting at me. It was war, and the war is over now. But if they had set out to blow up my parents, my wife, my children and my neighbors, I would give them no forgiveness and show them no mercy.

 

...or kindergartens or gradeschools?

 

Keep it flying.

 

Or you could be like the Taliban, I suppose. One of their preferred targets is girl's schools. Don't get me going on what I think of people who would rather murder girls than let them learn to read and write.

 

It is refreshing to find a topic on which we thoroughly agree. Do you remember the school in Saudi Arabia which, when it caught on fire, the police would not allow the girls out without the headscarves but instead forced them back into the burning building?

 

Back to pirates, water etc

The following report illustrates a fair and reasonable even sensible solution to the pirate problem i.e. harsh remedies for harsh situations.

-The tanker was freed from the pirate's grasp in a dawn operation which was hailed as exemplary by Russian defence experts and officials. A pleased as punch, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said the raid was "sharp, professional and quick" and ordered medals for all those involved in the rescue.

The marines captured ten pirates during their assault, and these were then reportedly taken and held on the Russian destroyer “Marshal Shaposhnikov”. However almost as suddenly as they were captured they were unexpectedly released, with Russian officials saying there was insufficient legal basis to keep them in detention and that they would be too expensive to feed.

So if you can’t keep them, what can you do? It seems the Russian navy decided to simply send the pirates whence they came, and put them in a boat some 300 nautical miles offshore, removing all weaponry and navigational equipment from the vessel.

In the past some navies have been criticised for taking soft options and have resorted to delivering the little blighters back into their home waters. A response which doesn’t perhaps tally with the rather “stricter” stance expected from Russian armed forces.

Now all this would perhaps have been fine had the Somalis made it to safety...alas it would seem that they did not. Shortly after, a high-ranking source was quoted by Russia's official news agencies “According to the latest information, the pirates who seized the Moscow University oil tanker failed to reach the shore. Evidently, they have all died”. The source said that radio signals from the boat stopped just one hour after it had been set free by the Russian navy. No details were given over the manner in which they could have lost their lives....

Having experienced the mongrels first hands it works for me.

Cheers

 

Something I saw passing reference to in a news story a while back: it claimed hundreds of would-be pirates die every year anyway, heading out to sea improperly equipped in boats that weren't designed for such use.

I suppose some of them are paying the price for a get-rich-quick mentality. But others are pushing off in those boats mostly because there's little or nothing for them on shore. Piracy seems to be the only game in town.

That doesn't mean we should let them keep taking ships. But to my mind, it isn't going to stop until there's some other way for them to make a living, which requires some sort of stability and a functioning government in Somalia. I don't know whether that can be imposed from the outside, though. Like a lot of people, the Somalis seem to unite against outsiders even if it isn't in their best interest.

Maybe the solution is to pick out the warlord who seems to have the best chances, and discreetly give him the money and arms he needs to unify the country the hard way. Yes, I know: if he's a warlord, by definition he isn't going to be a nice guy. But a warlord would have to go some to do the country more harm than anarchy is doing to it right now.

edit: and of course, it would be helpful if that warlord weren't a fundamental Muslim fanatic.....which complicates the problem of who to back.

 

What About Those Cluster Bombs

They did drop cluster bombs on Lebanon ...against all international laws. And these things KILL CHILDREN who think the unexploded ones look like toys!!

What about that US Navy ship they sank....killing how many American seamen

These Israelis are NOT angels, and I've truly had enough kicks in my face as an AMERICAN, to tell them the AMERICAN tax payer funded foreign aid should be eliminated until they truly sit down to the table and negotiate a TWO-sided solution..

Lets eliminate all this never ending pre-condition crap and get on with substitutive talks between two parties that have real differences.

As an American tax payer I am damn tired of paying to build a wall between two people when it took years for us to get another country to tear down a wall. And we are paying for this...they didn't pass around a collection plate over there for this multi-billion dollar wall.

FED UP:!: Cut off the foreign aid until something gets started. I'll bet they understand that :!: :!:

 

I think you get a good point.

Brent

It is the view of an old fart who watch to much TV, with too much beer.
Your antisemite and anti Israely rambling is "deja vu" and quite boring.
Stay with Origami boat, you are more entertaining but always wrong.
Is that not funny
Spending a life to be wrong, and posting it


Daniel

 

They could always sell sand traps to golf courses.