Das Hoot!

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Dec 13, 2005.

  1. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    I saw this on SA this morning-they sure do a great job of introducing the newest and coolest technology. The company building HOOT is sponsoring SA's new "Dinghy Anarchy" forum that has the potential to be real interesting if you like little boats like I do.The HOOT is a 14' singlehander-the picture on the site of the girl holding the 14' hull under her arm is terrific!
    Updated specs:
    LOA 14' Max Beam(with racks): 8'4" Waterine Beam: 31.5" Sail Area: 107.6 sq.ft.(10sq.meters)
    Weight: Hull only-50lb. Hull+racks-90lb. All up: 150lb. more or less $7,000US.
    From a design perspective I was disapointed that the thing didn't have foils-when is somebody going to come out with an easy to sail, reasonably priced foiler?! This is the second new "skiff" that I've seen being introduced in the US and built in the US and neither of them have any really new sailing technology. Both of them are great looking boats and seem to be built using state of the art materials technology-not sailing technology. Oh, well.....
    edit: I forgot: the square top main looks real good and the sail uses camber inducers. The freeboard looks too low wth the racks appearing to hit the water a lot. All in all a damn good looking little boat.
  2. K4s
    Joined: Nov 2004
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    K4s Junior Member

    Its just a sit down complicated windsurfer.Nothing new.
  3. John ilett
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    John ilett Senior Member

    If you re-arrange the letters of the word "Hoot" you can can almost spell out the word "Moth".
  4. water addict
    Joined: Jun 2004
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    water addict Naval Architect

    I agree. Why not just get a sailboard- lighter, cheaper, and probably faster.
  5. the_sphincter
    Joined: Nov 2005
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    the_sphincter *

    looks like a scow with racks. looks fun. as to the "why not a sailboard" cause it's lighter and cheaper and faster? why not get rid of keelboats and just sail dinghies because they're lighter, cheaper, and faster. Different animals. Very similar to the moth though.
  6. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    Moth Hoot

    These guys missed a bet not getting with John a while ago and introducing the Hoot with foils as AT LEAST an option. You can't beat foils in dinghy's-no way. Geez, the little Moth has beaten A-Class cats, 49er's etc. Now that's state of the art sailing technology.
    You probably could have gone to Australia 10 years ago and might have seen a boat remarkably like the HOOT in the US today! We can do better in this country-it just takes a little "$vision$"!
  7. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    That Foiler Thing


    While I fully understand your enthusiasm for the potential speed and technology applications of "all things foilie", I'd think it would be at least prudent to temper some of the drumbeat with the realities of the genre as they apply to the average dude who takes out a boat.

    These babies are expensive, they're fiddly and they operate best in a fairly narrow bandwidth of conditions. The driver MUST pay very close attention to the depth of the water as unexpected groundings can be quite expensive and fairly catastrophic.

    I got the pleasure of watching a Rave foiler at considerable speed from about thirty yards when it contacted a sandbar. The following display was quite amazing and utimately took a huge bite out of the owners wallet to put the boat back right.

    All that having been said, I do feel there is a place for these boats as development platforms for the discovery of systems and techniques for future commercial applications.

    Chris Ostlind
  8. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    Sandbars exist so give up foiling?

    You've got to be kidding! It is any sailors' responsibility to be aware of the water they're sailing in. Foilers on foils don't draw a lot of water which makes the Rave incident all the more sad and indicative of careless seamanship - certainly not a commentary on the viability of foiling!
    You can't possibly suggest that a whole new state of the art way of sailing should be put on hold because some nut runs his Rave aground.
    While some current foilers may be "fiddly" they don't have to be. And a Moth foils in 8k(and going down) of wind on up & and a Rave 10-12k on up-no narrow range of conditions! Eric Sponberg and I have created a 14' foiler with buoyancy pods ,retractable foils and a sliding bench seat stability system along with a number of other features including an unstayed 130 sq.ft. rig.It should foil in 5-6 k on up! We firmly believe that ANY average sailor would be able to sail this boat with a minimum of instruction and in the same body of water as any other 14' sailboat.
    The guys with the HOOT could have and maybe still can use a foil system and would probably attract far more interest than with just another singlehander with racks-new to the US to some extent but not to high performance sailing.
    Monofoilers like the Moth(so far) have redefined high performance sailing and other boats that are easier to use will be natural outgrowths of the tremendous inventiveness shown in the Moth Class-it is a revolution in sailing! Chris, you have some odd misconceptions of foilers- have you ever sailed a monofoiler?
  9. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    Another foilie thing

    Nope, Doug, not a monofoiler. But I have sailed the Hobie Trifoiler and the Rave on numerous occasions in a wide variety of wind and water conditions.

    I never said put a hold on the devlopment; those are your words, my boy. In fact, I encouraged the further development of the class. I also said you owe it to anyone who is reading these postings to be balanced in your rush to foaming enthusiasm.

    I notice you never mentioned the potential cost of your new design. Please help me here.. I'm thinking of the typical sporting boat enthusiast (I didn't say Sportboat, so make sure you reference the cost position correctly) who has something like, MAYBE, $8-10K to spend on one of these boats.

    You'll have to show me that he can step-up and get a brand new boat for that; that his boat can be sailed easily from the beach with minimum fuss; that he won't have to be technically adept in any fashion beyond a "set-it and forget-it" posture, that the fit and finish will match any of the simple, easily sailed, non-foilers AND that the boat can sail well in frisky chop and flukey winds and not just 15+ knots and flat water like one finds in Hurricane Gulch in San Pedro.

    Those are the entry level requirements for a commercially viable product that might hope to attract a wide audience to the foil genre. Yes, you can build another, go-fast, "interesting" foil sail boat, but it will appeal mostly to the guys who are already on the bandwagon for the potential unless you canovercome the issues I listed (and then some) You have a very steep hill to climb when it comes to making a viable commercial product. The fact that you've enlisted Eric's help is wise and a good start.

    Perhaps you've also taken a hard look at the efforts of Hobie and Windrider to bring this technology to the public. Each of them had a VERY talented designer on-board, spent lerge sums of money in the exposure phase and took the boat around relentlessly to drum-up buyers. Yet, there they sit, two very cool boats languishing in the backwaters of unfulfilled expectations.

    I'd say that the ranting should be done and now it's your turn to produce the boat for which you have made such interesting claims. Get your butt down to the shop and start cutting materials. You should be ready to go around the end of the summer with some sort of prototype. If the whole concept works and it can be brought-in at a proper price tag, then it might stand a chance of bringing a foiled craft to the masses and not just go-fast racing enthusiasts.

    Personally, I'd love to see the whole thing become doable and I'd be more than happy to congratulate you publicly if you do pull it off. You're just going to have to offer something more than hype on a discussion forum in order to do that and you need to be balanced as to the realities of the foiling genre if you expect buyers to not feel like they got scammed.

    Best of Luck,

    Chris Ostlind
  10. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest


    Chris, Eric and I are trying to raise the money to go forward with the aeroSKIFF™ 14 but aren't having much luck. But with a little technical help a boat like the HOOT could probably be adapted to foils and meet all your qualifications right now.
    The ranting is a long way from over because most people still don't understand the potential of these boats. It doesn't matter in the great scheme of things whether it's Eric and me or somebody else-there's already a boat along these lines being developed in the UK-the M4. And there will be more.
    I know Dr. Bradfield and designed my F3 RC foiler(1st production rc sailing foiler) with his help and he always wanted to see a carbon or even glass sandwich version of the RAVE.My F3 which uses different foils but the same altitude control system as the Rave takes off NOW in a 5-6 mph wind.And so would a carbon/ glass Rave... But nothing, in my opinion compares to the monofoiler type for wide appeal-it has huge potential to meet every criteria you posted NOW. I'm modifying my 16' aeroSKIFF monofoiler to include some of the ideas to be incorporated on the production aeroSKIFF 14 but it's a slow development process unless we can raise the money needed to do it right. Like I said before it's only a matter of time and ,again, the HOOT guys seem to have missed the boat. But maybe the M4 guys will get it right or John Illett will listen to me and produce a peoples foiler based loosely on the Moth-he could do it NOW. So could Andy Paterson and a few others-it's just a question of who puts it all together first from a production standpoint.
    edit: Chris, one more thing: it's not hype it's an opinion based on a thorough knowledge of the technical aspects of foiling reinforced by much on-going research and many conversations with people that have been involved in design and foiling for many years. It may sound like hype until you check into it a little further....
    Here's a bit on the M4:
    The M4 concept
  11. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    Foil Saga

    Nice stuff, Doug. I really look forward to more positive news from your search for funding on the project.

  12. mattotoole
    Joined: Nov 2004
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    mattotoole Senior Member

    I like the idea too, but I have the same reservations about freeboard, etc. It looks like one of those zoom-crash, zoom-crash kind of boats. What I really like is the lightweight and cartoppable aspect. A Laser or Europe is cartoppable, but most people would need help lifting it off and launching. That picture of the girl holding the boat under her arm really does speak a thousand words.
  13. SuperPiper
    Joined: Jan 2003
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    SuperPiper Men With Little Boats . .

    Optional Foils

    If the Hoot should offer foils as an option, then perhaps the planet's most popular dinghy could offer foils. Would it ever be possible to foil a Laser?

    Instead of a few or a dozen foilers in a geographic region, there could suddenly be thousands. What do you buy the sailor that has everything for Christmas? A set of foils.
  14. the_sphincter
    Joined: Nov 2005
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    the_sphincter *

    I have heard of a guy who got a long wide board and made a IC type rack on his laser. When it's blowing 35, it'd probably be fast as hell, but the whole concept of a laser is one-design.

  15. alyne
    Joined: Aug 2003
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    alyne Junior Member

    Thanks for pointing this boat out Doug. Everyone has their idea of their puurfect boat, and the Hoot comes close to mine, in fact I am currently building a somewhat less sophisticated version of this concept. Their experiences with sail design and specifically using the windsurfer rig I found interesting.

    Good luck with the aeroSKIFF project!
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