Dare to Say No

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Chris Ostlind, Nov 23, 2009.

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  1. Willallison
    Joined: Oct 2001
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Really...? Exactly which part of building that new boat do you think is green? Boats - ALL boats - are ...what's the opposite of green?....decidedly un-green. Your old boat is still around.... still doing what its always done. Your new boat has simply added to the burden. Sorry Claus.... welcome to the forum BTW!:D

    Every one of those roto-molded paddle boats got popped out of its petrochemical mold and hey according to the new gospel...there are 10's OF MILLIONS OF THEM!!
    I've beat my head against this wall for long enough. 'fraid that until we can return to the subject of the thread, I'm out.
     
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  2. Red Tide
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    Red Tide Junior Member

    The Cash for Clunkers program pained me when it was mandated that the engines and other perfectly good parts had to be crushed & destroyed. Good to get someone whose driving hours on the freeway every day into something more fuel efficient, but totally wasteful to destroy all those V8s. Many of them were probably every bit as good as the blocks going into boats today. Or how many were being used a few hours a week as a snowplow, boat towing vehicle, etc.? How much energy did it take to make them and then melt them down compared to the gas savings from the secondary cars that were traded in? I'm going off topic, but that irked me...
     
  3. fcfc
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    fcfc Senior Member

    I am note sure. I think most people buying small boats are much much more concerned by the thickness (or lack of :D ) of their wallet.

    Just look at Woodenboat PBB design contest for economical boats. the first one http://www.woodenboat.com/wbmag/designchallenge.php limited boat length to 18'6 and displacement to 2700 lbs. The second one has a minimum length of 24' and displacement limit to 3500 lbs. http://www.woodenboat.com/wbmag/designchallenge2.php

    Guess the third one still for 2 gph, but will allow 5500 lbs displacement for inboard diesel engines as some are already asking for or more comfort. Look for boats like this http://www.glen-l.com/designs/cruiser/dsn-herd.html http://www.glen-l.com/designs/cruiser/hercules.html or this http://www.rangertugs.com/r/r-25.cfm
     
  4. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Guess the third one still for 2 gph, but will allow 5500 lbs displacement for inboard diesel engines as some are already asking for or more comfort.

    The boat should be judged on its performance , how fast can one cruise on 2 gph?

    The arbitrary weight limit only reduces the variety of vessels and power sources that can compete.

    This reduces the diesel selection to car marinizations , with car electronics that fair poorly in a boat in a thunderstorm.

    Perhaps OARS should be part of the mandate, or a Yula?

    FF
     
  5. fcfc
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    fcfc Senior Member

    Very roughly , 6500 lbs , 27 ft lwl or 5500 lbs 24 ft lwl can go 11 kts with 36 hp, around 2 gph. Or 7500 lbs, 24 ft lwl to 10 kts. or 6500lbs 31 ft lwl to 12 kts.

    Above figures for normal boats, with normal diesel engines.
    The ranger 25 goes only 7.5 kts with 2 gph (slower than a nordic tug 32 at same gph), but the reduction 1:2 with a 4000 rpm engine. So kinda outboard propeller probably for trailering and shaft angle. As the engine is under the cockpit probably for space constraints, with a straigh shaft. And my gess is that lwl/bwl is smaller than 3, so not the best for slightly above hull speed.

    On the other side, it has very good liveability and still trailerable. Nothing comes free.



    No, small industrial. Car marinisation are above, in the 100-200 hp range.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
  6. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    I think I'm being sold on human power. We have quite a bit of commercial traffic here but can sometimes avoid it by going to an area with a pretty stiff meter of chop or can transport with a bigger boat to calm water with dense kelp forest. What pedal boat should I choose?
     
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  7. Guest625101138

    Guest625101138 Previous Member

    Mark
    Rather than cluttering this thread with design detail go over to the linked one and ask there:
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/pedal-powered-boats-23345-33.html
    The questions you raise are common issues and there are various options to address.

    Rick W.
     
  8. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    "As an industry, we boat builders and designers of pleasure craft are accountable for the current trends: expensive, wasteful, impractical boats and yachts. How, then, do we lead the market back to affordable, aesthetically pleasing, practical craft?"

    If you knew what kind of boat he is building, you will be a little less excited.
    Some people has the talent to write nice article.

    Cheers
    Daniel
     
  9. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    Excellent page edit Jeff.
     
  10. boat fan
    Joined: Sep 2008
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    boat fan Senior Member

    Another view....

    Another view ......the design is " Retriever " , although this is almost irrelevant .
     

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  11. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    I think the best way to serve a customer is also to know our limitation as a naval architect and boatbuilder compair to what he want.
    Sometime we say no for the wrong reason, our own reason, not to direct him on the right direction, even if we think so.
    It is sometime a fine line.
    Cheers
    Daniel
     
  12. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

  13. jdworld
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    jdworld Junior Member

    ....a sellout of all their 2010 model boats, doubling of production, etc...... sounds impressive, but what does that actually mean? How many boats is that exactly when you are talking about a huge boat that probably takes forever to make and costs $200k+?

    Looking at their website it's kinda weird that out of the 4 "consumer" models of boats they offer (not racing team boats), they only show actual photographs of one. The rest are computer models. If they've built (ie sold) any of the other 3 you would think they'd put an actual photo on their site. Hmmmm....maybe their customers are mainly corporate race teams.

    Still an amazing boat - that SL700 is beautiful!
     
  14. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Do┬┤nt bother,

    marketing drivel. Whistling in the dark, you know?

    Although one point seems to be valid. The power "demand" is increasing. During the past 5 years we sold 50% of one model, ranging from 880 hp to 1550 hp per engine, below the 1000 hp barrier. Since the "crisis" took place (numbers went down, no doubt), we sell the same boat with 1550 hp engines only. Nono, they are ordered with these engines.

    So, if I would count the 880 hp boats in one file, and the 1550 in another, I would be able to give a impressive picture of todays market. All serious, nothing cheated, and all nonsense.:cool:

    Regards
    Richard
     

  15. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    "and all nonsense.".......yep, that is the world we build in.......going back as far as we can get people to talk to us, they all seem to say the same thing.....my Grandfathers day it was just the same as it is today, we builders do what we have to, but never seem to grasp what it is that drives someone to WANT more and more in the same sized mess......
     
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