Dare to Say No

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Chris Ostlind, Nov 23, 2009.

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  1. narwhal
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    narwhal Junior Member

    Many engineering colleges promote concrete canoe competition as a means to not only keep their students' interest, but also help teach them about concrete design: http://content.asce.org/conferences/nccc2010/

    Oh nevermind, I hadn't noticed the prior post with the same info.

    Another alternative to trailering a runabout or similar sized craft is the dry-stack boat warehouse. I imagine we'll see more boaters use them, and perhaps rent or borrow a truck to tow their boat to another lake for a change of pace once a year or so....
     
  2. jdworld
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    jdworld Junior Member

    .....have you checked out the SUV market lately? Ever heard of a hybrid? Did designers cram these down consumer's throats?

    But how you waste EVERYONE'S gas under the veil of "luxury" is EVERYONE'S business. Gas, no matter what the price, is finite energy. And gas no matter what the price, pollutes.

    I can tell you that 4-5 years ago I was hearing this same train of thought from clients in the home designing world. Clients AND large home builders. The general consensus was "Green? Why would I want that?" Now, much sooner than I would have guessed, every large home builder knows they will be completely uncompetitive if they don't build green. Entire green subdivisions have gone up. All their magazine ads now hype their green building features to death as if they were the originators. Yet those same builders were scoffing at it all as whiney tree hugger crap not very long ago.

    It's only a matter of time before the spotlight turns to the boating industry.
     
  3. jdworld
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    jdworld Junior Member

    .....have you checked out the SUV market lately? Ever heard of a hybrid? Did designers cram these down consumer's throats?

    But how you waste EVERYONE'S gas under the veil of "luxury" is EVERYONE'S business. Gas, no matter what the price, is finite energy. And gas, no matter what the price, pollutes.

    I can tell you that 4-5 years ago I was hearing this same train of thought from clients in the home designing world. Clients AND large home builders. The general consensus was "Green? Why would I want that?" Now, much sooner than I would have guessed, every large home builder knows they will be completely uncompetitive if they don't build green. Entire green subdivisions have gone up. All their magazine ads now hype their green building features to death as if they were the originators. Yet those same builders were scoffing at it all as whiney tree hugger crap not very long ago.

    It's only a matter of time before the spotlight turns to the boating industry.
     
  4. boat fan
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    boat fan Senior Member

    More and more legislation is being passed , as we speak , to ensure all new dwellings are " green " or they don`t get built , period.

    Is it really such a stretch of the imagination to think that the boating industry will not be immune , given time ?

    The initial efforts at legislating to make " green " cars , may well have produced superficial "token " laws so far , but will be refined in time , to actually become at least somewhat effective.

    Early days it seems , and as has been said already , the majority of " green " cars are anything but ....however , that is not to say we won`t get there...with homes , cars , AND boats...Early days .....
     
  5. RHough
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    RHough Retro Dude

    Luxury? Filling your boat with 9,900 gallons? Compared to my measly 440? :)

    Short of communism who gets to define Luxury?

    My boat is much more fuel efficient than the same boat 3 years ago ... by about 20%.

    My boat meets 2009 emissions standards ... how many can make that claim?

    Compared to 3 liters a day ... I'm a gross consumer ... compared to others I am not.

    Compared to me most boats are gross polluters. Getting the double whammy boats (high fuel usage/high emissions) off the water makes more sense than giving me **** for my minimum usage / pollution for the size and type boat I have. Have the USCG certify every boat and graduate license fees by tons per hour of carcinogenic crap they put out.

    Go to the power forum and try to sell proper marine power plants to the "Can I use the old engine out of my truck?" crowd.

    Everyone's gas? Unless the government owns the supply and production it isn't Everyone's. It is a commodity sold for profit, I can easily afford the fuel I use, I selected a boat that fits my budget.

    I never knew that boat designers were communists at heart. :)

    Yes, I poked fun at the "tree huggers" ... the reality is that IMO I do my part and at considerable expense. What kills me is the thought that after I spent a considerable chunk of money to be as "green" as possible for this boat, and to reduce energy usage in our home that some idiot will tell me that I have to reduce another 20% ... I've already done more than that.

    Forgive me my small indulgence? :)
     
  6. narwhal
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    narwhal Junior Member

     
  7. boat fan
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    boat fan Senior Member

    Agreed , it will happen . All vehicles.

    My post had an accidental omission , and should have read :
    Sorry.
     
  8. Claus Riepe
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    Claus Riepe Junior Member

    You are of course entitled to that opinion and statement. Won't deter other designer though from thinking out and finding ways to reduce mass of boat and trailer combinations. A lot can be done, and will be done. As I said, the automotive industry is leading the way and is already on the move.
     
  9. boat fan
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    boat fan Senior Member

    That was not meant as a negative statement claus.....

    Just saying that larger trailer boats are heavy and hard to tow.


    I would encourage all designers to look at that.
    We will get better boats that way.
     
  10. Guest625101138

    Guest625101138 Previous Member

    Did you ask Mr Bethune how well it pierces waves?

    Rick W
     
  11. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    There IS NO argument Chris Ostlind! Just drivel............
    and about balance Chris, thanks for hitting me negative on this post:

     
  12. fcfc
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    fcfc Senior Member


    As I have said and shown, going green is perfectly doable. The only slight problem is that it only cost more, and so is not selling enough to make a yard survive.

    The initial the problem was
    "As an industry, we boat builders and designers of pleasure craft are accountable for the current trends: expensive, wasteful, impractical boats and yachts. How, then, do we lead the market back to affordable, aesthetically pleasing, practical craft?"

    Going green, you are just making the boats more expensive which is the opposite asked, for a little less wasteful.

    If green is in law, and it will probably be, the boatbuilders will just sell even more expensive boats to even fewer customers.
     
  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest


    The problem was (and is), that this statement was just completely wrong! We produce already what is claimed there to be in demand.
    And we do NOT produce mainly: expensive, wasteful, impractical boats and yachts.
    That was pure nonsense!
     
  14. missinginaction
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    missinginaction Senior Member


    "Get the client mature"....probably the biggest challenge (look at Dubai).

    Richard, you are absolutely right.

    MIA
     

  15. fcfc
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    fcfc Senior Member

    That perfectly possible, even true :p . After all, yards producing where there is no demand do not last very long.

    But that the demand concerns bigger and bigger boats, with fewer customers. NMMA statistics showed that average price increased 250% on the last 10 years, and customers about halved.

    If the trend continue, there will be only a few yards building superyachts.

    The real main problem is : what the other yards will do ? The ones that cannot invest, or not efficient either for manufacturing or selling bigger boats.

    What new demand for them to live ?
     
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