Dare to Say No

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Chris Ostlind, Nov 23, 2009.

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  1. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    So, one guy, who makes a positive contribution...makes a difference!! Great :D

    Oh, so when Bubba makes his not so positive contribution, that negates it, hmmm!....quid pro quo

    Life is all about balance, neh :eek:
     
  2. Claus Riepe
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    Claus Riepe Junior Member

    There is one boat market not just comparable to the automobile market but factually dependent on it: Trailer boats.

    The bulk of private cars being designed today -to be coming out big time in a few years- will be dramatically lighter in weight and with smaller engines. My own best guess is that many will be near the specs of the current Toyota Prius.

    Simple question: What will this given trend in automobiles mean for the trailer boat market of the future? Simple answer: It MUST adapt, or else.
     
  3. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    You are right. They never sell so much big truck right now :D
     
  4. boat fan
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    boat fan Senior Member

    Trouble is ...a 25 ft trailer boat is a 25 ft trailer boat , it weighs what it weighs .The trailer is as big and heavy as it needs to be.

    The guy that really wants that boat will not buy that Toyota Prius.

    Then again ...as you said , another guy that wants that 25 footer may not want to buy the truck as well .
    If he hasn`t got it already ( the truck ), he might buy a car topper or canoe....:)
    Hard to predict. Maybe not so simple a question.....
     
  5. RHough
    Joined: Nov 2005
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    RHough Retro Dude

    You make a good point. Boaters that trailer their boats or even cartop human powered boats to where they boat, consider this in their overall lifestyle. If they have only one vehicle, they must have one that is large enough to either tow their boat or cart their gear for that "green" weekend kayak camping. EVERY other day, they are wasting energy driving a less efficient vehicle. Bubba puts 40 hours a year on his boat ... 5 weekends ... 10 days at 4 hours a day. 250 days a year Bubba drives that truck to work empty ... The kayaker drives his CRV, Element equivalent with the boat racks on it to make sure everyone knows he is a nature boy.

    If smaller cars force smaller, lighter boats ... either the inshore will be more crowded or we will have people out in big water in little boats ... not a very responsible effect of the downsize.

    If/when it is no longer practical to tow, the trailer boat market will go away. Perhaps large rental fleets will replace the need to tow your own boat? That or renting a tow vehicle 5 times a year will become part of the 40 hours a year lifestyle?

    I agree with Chris to a point, I think that new designs and technology will emerge to serve whatever market there is. As regulation creeps into boating as it surely is. Bubba will get pissed off that he has to have a license to run his boat and will resent every drunk boating ticket he gets. Take away the freedom to operate unlicensed and to drink and boat and 50% of the trailer boat market goes away even if fuel were free.

    Times are changing. I for one won't miss the clueless drunks in 18 foot bow riders and PWC's.

    Nothing like the look on a PWC rider's face when you chase them down and jump their wake for a change! Something that a 17 ton boat with pod drives can do ... :p

    Total impact. Not just the boat design part has to be considered.
     
  6. ancient kayaker
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    -or rent the truck on the 2 or 3 days of the year when he really needs it.
     
  7. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member


    Yes.... Life is all about balance, Ad.

    Life is also about taking the long view of the situation and not rushing about looking to make it all happen in one short moment. I'm willing to take the long view because in due time, all the issues are on my side of the argument.

    Perhaps you'll be around long enough to see it all reach the tipping point?
     
  8. boat fan
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    boat fan Senior Member

    Awful waste using it only 2 or 3 days a year.( the boat , not the truck :D )

    A lot of us will I think.
     
  9. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Fellas', I do think we need to reconsider the eco-value of the kayakattack.
    After seeing a few folded in half and abandoned in river log-jams and a few simple flotsam in nearshore critical habitats (I have personally witnessed more plastic kayaks adrift than Joy soap bottles in the last twenty years - one is pollution, yet one is eco-groovy) I was initially aghast at the prospect of disposing of many large plastic toys that will, at some time, be taking up too much garage space or get folded in a surf.
    Recently, however, it has become possible to use natural materials in the molding process. Through the use of beach sand and stone chip, sandstone composite can be created which is 80% natural non-processed material, and further developement with kelp and soy glue can bring that to near 100% (forward-looking statement). Poly need not be used! Now, my proposed new (sandstone) kayaks may be considered too delicate for recreational use but if a concrete sub, why not a sandstone kayak? Should I start working on my logo and website?
    Just funnin' but I actually remember an engineering student one time trying to build a concrete canoe - maybe rotomolding...
     
  10. boat fan
    Joined: Sep 2008
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    boat fan Senior Member

    Should I start...

    In a word , No.
     
  11. Guest625101138

    Guest625101138 Previous Member

  12. Guest625101138

    Guest625101138 Previous Member

    Claus
    They will have to do better than the Prius if you want trailer boats. It is not rated for towing. They will not factory/dealer fit towbars to them in Australia.

    Same for the Honda Insight.

    So if you are thinking of a trailer boat, even a little one, check this aspect before buying.

    Rick W
     
  13. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Yes - I think that was the contest for which he was designing! I certainly hope that the Austin team won their race for all of the work they went through. They seemed to be very gentle with it (setting the occupants in, etc.) I would have thought with that schedule and all the fiber and rebar it would actually be plenty tough for a while (but they are the engineering students).
     
  14. fcfc
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    fcfc Senior Member

    Do not expect trailering to solve anything.

    It will just move the probem a few years away, in the best case.

    In the mediterranean, there is a shortage of marina since long. People were going trailering, mainly with jetskis and RIBs.

    What is the net effect :

    Using ramp is becoming very expensive. You pay when unloading the boat, when loading the boat, for parking the car, for parking the trailer. See this french association paper. http://pneuboat.com/reportages/xavier/_news/2009/aucmed/Colloque2009.pdf They complain among other things that free ramps went from 162 in 2007 down to 19 in 2009. People that could afford some small trailerable boat some years ago can no longer do it because of the general increase of costs.

    You have to wait in some case up to 3 hours, leading exasperated people to fight. (If you have to wait for 3 hours, it simply means the afternoon is lost).

    Some cities simply prohibit access to car+trailer greater than 40 ft on weekend, to limit traffic jam around the marina. 40 ft is 15ft car + 25 boat on trailer, something around 21-22 ft boat max.

    Increasing number of trailers become to be a perceived problem. You will soon need to have CE certified trailers http://www.icomia.com/technical-info/document.asp?TI_ID=27 wich unlikely means cheaper trailers.

    You are getting very strong speed limits on trailers. In france , rigs of overall weight (car + boat + trailer ) bigger than 7000 lbs are now subjected to the same speed limits as heavy semi trailers trucks.

    I do not speak of towing cars. In France, people rushed on green cars, simply because they got money from govt for buying green cars, and had to pay heavy taxes at buy and yearly for more polluting cars. Nearly all cars that are able to tow someting are in the more polluting category.

    The overall goal is really to limit people to use trailering. And it is done as usual with a money selection for the sake of some politically correct good reason as green or safety.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009

  15. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Rick
    A little editing if I may...
    They will have to do better than the Toyota Prius.

    All that needed to be said;)

    Now, since this thread bears little resemblance to the discussion that erupted 10 or more pages ago, I feel no guilt about trapsing a little further afield....

    I was rather thrilled today to be driving along past the waterfront only to glance across and see the tops of two rather unmistakable air intakes. The young lady formaerly known as Earthrace has now joined the anti-whaling brigade and lobbed into town today having crossed the pond from NZ.
    Quite a machine. I was even more impressed when one Mr. Bethune invited my 6yo son & I aboard for a look. 1 1/2 hrs later we scrambled back up onto the jetty, having helped them turn the thing around.
    My impressions? Well... fabulous boat for pottering around the world to raise awareness of the viability of bio-diesel. Utterly useles for anything else!
    Oh... and very sexy...especially in matt, low-radar-signature black.
    Seems I wasn't quite right when I said a thousand posts back that green is the new black. Turns out that black is the new green!!
     

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