"Current Situation" DIY Efficient Solar/Electric Powered Newport 17 Project

[alan craig]

Relays? Why are there relays in a PWM controller - what do they do?
and
Fast model boats? so you are familiar with Li-ion and brushless.

 

[ElectroDanO]

Relays? Why are there relays in a PWM controller - what do they do?
and
Fast model boats? so you are familiar with Li-ion and brushless.

The relays are for forward and reverse. Bench test looks good. If this doesn't work, I'll go back to a basic PWM with forward only and no relays.

Yes, I've been playing with these crazy toy boats for about 12 years now. I usually shoot for top speed with a GPS. Makes my hands shake everytime!

 

[alan craig]

The relay thing seems strange. I built a brushless outboard and controller using a speed controller (ESC) from the model 'plane hobby, which doesn't have reverse, I reversed it by wiring two phases to a two pole changeover switch (turn throttle to zero first). Then I tried a relay with two changeover contacts operated by a waterproof switch. The relay failed so I have now gone back to the changeover switch! Reason for trying a relay was that it had a spare contact which could be used to operate a solenoid to lock the outboard leg down in reverse but I never got around to using that.

 

[ElectroDanO]

The relay thing seems strange. I built a brushless outboard and controller using a speed controller (ESC) from the model 'plane hobby, which doesn't have reverse, I reversed it by wiring two phases to a two pole changeover switch (turn throttle to zero first). Then I tried a relay with two changeover contacts operated by a waterproof switch. The relay failed so I have now gone back to the changeover switch! Reason for trying a relay was that it had a spare contact which could be used to operate a solenoid to lock the outboard leg down in reverse but I never got around to using that.

Interesting! I'll start looking into that idea! I'm not sure on the "relay thing" either but I'd guess that cost probably has something to do with it. I'd love to see more about your brushless setup! I tried searching but didn't find much... I definitely want to make a brushless motor(or two) for this thing eventually. What a fun project that will be!

Well, the new beefy relays seem to help a little but not near what I had hoped. Relay still gets pretty hot. I ran it at 90-100% for over an hour straight and never let out any magic smoke so I can't complain too much. Maybe that's just the nature of the beast with using these $15 PWM controllers...

My son and I went on an overnighter and never left the boat other than to jump in and enjoy the water. We did some exploring and the wildlife was in full swing. We even got to see a bald eagle! That's beyond rare to see around here. Neither one of us were too sure about the sleeping arrangements in the little cabin but we both fit just fine. We're getting this stuff figured out!

 

[alan craig]

DanO, it looks like you're having a fine time! I'm still reeling from some of last years failures - lead batteries failing, leaving me to row; a folding propeller for the outboard didn't work; a pedal powered fin device on the transom was an embarrassing failure. Also the solar roof I made is not really suitable for my little boat as it is narrow and the roof makes it unstable.
I'm now assembling some li-ion batteries using new old stock robot lawnmower batteries.
All you need for reversing is a two pole changeover switch or one relay with two changeover switch contacts. Unactivated (no power consumed) in forward, activate for reverse.

 

[ElectroDanO]

Alan, I got a laugh out of your failure comment. Sometimes things don't turn out like we had originally hoped for do they? I know that feeling ALL too well! I'm a master at failing. It can be frustrating but we have to keep going. Especially when it comes to getting on the water!

Funny that you mentioned the lawnmower battery. I help out at my friends small engine shop a couple of days a week and I'm always bringing home some cool "scrap" to play with. Starting to see more electric equipment with brushless motors and lithium batteries now also. So exciting!

Thanks for the info on the changeover switch. That looks like a far better way of doing things. I'll get one on the way!

 

[ElectroDanO]

Well, she's officially taken apart for the year. Another fun and successful summer was had though!

I have a list of little projects to do over the winter. I've been dreaming of higher voltage and more power but I've just about talked myself into leaving the power system alone for a while and working on other stuff. That being said, I ran across some very affordable Haswing Protruar brushless motors that have my interest now. Their 12v model is rated at 65lb/600w and two 24v models at 85lb/960w and 110lb/1200w. Pretty decent numbers for a bolt on motor/controller that would hopefully be a little more efficient also. Something to think about!

 

[ElectroDanO]

Hope everyone survived the holidays in one piece. Wow, 2022... Let's do it!

Well, I thought about it all I could and pulled the trigger on a 12v Haswing Protruar 1.0 motor. I've tried everything I could think of to get ahold of the motor specs for these and have come up with nothing. Oh well... We'll have fun testing this thing out, my brushless itch will be scratched and I won't have to build a janky D.I.Y. one out of lawnmower scraps! For now...

Haven't gotten to play with it much yet but did notice that the shaft diameter is just slightly larger than the MK. Other than that, I'd say we're good to go with our beloved airplane props. Yes!!!

 

[Heimfried]

Hi Dan,
happy new year.
This outboard looks very familiar to me as I own 3 Haswings also. One Protruar 2.0 (960 Watt, 24 V) and two 3.0 (1,440 Watt, 24 V). If I manage to get my katamaran boat (I'm currently building her) in the water this year I'll start with these motors. One at the transom of each demi hull and the little one at the bow as lateral thrust unit occasionaly employed (only then dipped in) for box maneuvers etc.

Until now I only tested one of them on a not very suitable boat, a semi glider monohull power boat, 3.5 m, 11.5', for up to 50 HP outboard. It was therefore difficult to keep track with that hull - otherwise the motor worked quite ok. I'm very interested in your test results for different propellers. Unfortunately the motor needs left hand turning propellers which is narrowing the choice of stock propellers.

 

[SolGato]

The specs are out there for that motor which is basically a Caroute.

12V
65lbs Thrust
50A MAX draw
600W Input Power
1250 Max RPM underwater
3 Blade 9.3” diameter prop about 4” pitch

Based on Caroute’s brushless motor specs, it should be about 65% efficient

FYI, Caroute is now offering a larger diameter higher pitched 11.6” x 8” 2-Blade prop that’s a copy of a Torqeedo, recommended for light displacement applications it will give a little better performance but also load the motors more.

I think you’ll find that both the shaft and shear pin are larger than an MK, and Torqeedo for that matter. Also being a direct drive motor, the prop spins counter clockwise.

 

[Heimfried]

[...]
FYI, Caroute is now offering a larger diameter higher pitched 11.6” x 8” 2-Blade prop that’s a copy of a Torqeedo, recommended for light displacement applications it will give a little better performance but also load the motors more.
[...]

Thank you. I'm very interested in this prop but could not find any offer on the Web. "caroute.com" is not accessible, "caroute-outdoor.com" is offering only a 3 bladed spare prop (kit) without any specs.

 

[portacruise]

Just in case you didn't see this on the electric propulsion thread, hope it helps!

This prop may be helpful and is low enough cost for a trial. Scroll down for a review that includes some measurements. There are also other Marine props in their collection that might be helpful if this particular one doesn't work. Caveats, as I do not currently use Troll Motors myself,..

https://www.apcprop.com/product/10x5m-lh/

 

[Heimfried]

Thank you, I saw it and was thinking about it. But the bore is not fitting and widen it would may be produce an unbalanced prop. While the price alone is quite ok for me - for the delivery to Germany I have to add about 25 $ postage and about 10 $ import vat and fees.
Some European sellers provide apc props but have a much narrower stock.

 

[SolGato]

Thank you. I'm very interested in this prop but could not find any offer on the Web. "caroute.com" is not accessible, "caroute-outdoor.com" is offering only a 3 bladed spare prop (kit) without any specs.

Just email Jane@caroute.com and ask about the 2-blade prop option.

It was announced and tested on their Facebook Page which probably has the most up to date info on their products and development, as well as users applications..

Caroute Brushless Boat Electric Motor https://m.facebook.com/CarouteMotor/photos/a.2026925893988153/5589596291054411/?type=3&source=48&__tn__=EH-R

Caroute Brushless Boat Electric Motor https://m.facebook.com/CarouteMotor/

After modifying a Torqeedo for testing by reaming and using in reverse for forward thrust, I found out they started offering these and purchased two for use with my motors.

For my application, they added a little more top speed and a more efficient cruising speed while the controllers are Pulse Width Modulating, but more importantly they improved bite when in ocean swell. They did load my motors quite a bit more, and at very slow speeds you can feel more of their rotation as the churn through the water. Also in comparison, they are not made as nicely as the Torqeedo product (different density and chord), but are of the same quality as the original FRP design.

When compared on the water with the Torqeedo on one motor and the Caroute on the other, the Torqeedo is a smoother faster prop giving better upper RPM performance as it will overtake the other. I have to assume this is due to the Torqeedo being stiffer and of higher density with more chord in the blade. Also in general, my boat performed better with counter rotating props oriented for inner rotation.

 

[portacruise]

Some Hobby shops that sell APC props don't charge for shipping or other charges here in the USA, but I don't know how it works in Europe, someone could contact the sellers to get that info. Sometimes you have to prepay for a special order- if they don't normally handle it, and wait for delivery until they make their big order for the stock props that they do carry.

The props do not come balanced as far as I know, but with such a small mass at slower rpm plus buffering water viscosity, it is not usually a significant vibration. I use a long tapered ream to keep the hole angled and centered to enlarge holes gradually, then slowly drill or sand out the center portion from both sides, but there also may be special drills that can do it.

Some of the designated APC props can be run spinning in either direction, but they are not as efficient as the ones with a special air foil shape which require a dedicated spin direction, for best efficiency.

Measurements have proven that an unimproved cylindrical down shaft causes quite a significant turbulence and drag, compared to a faired down shaft. Post #252,

Efficient electric boat https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/efficient-electric-boat.27996/page-17