curious question

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Dirteater, Mar 28, 2011.

  1. Dirteater
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    Dirteater Senior Member

    This is just a "curious" questioin on my part.
    I've been looking a sailing Dories and have noticed different keel lengths.
    say on Dories 12 to 18'. Is is possible to have more than one keel to use in different applications? and if so, would it be fair to say this would apply to small sail boats as well?

    thanks,
    DE
     
  2. CutOnce

    CutOnce Previous Member

    This is almost a trick question. Real Newfoundland/St. Pierre dories aren't very suitable for most sailing, period. Low freeboard for easy fishing, good carrying capacity for bringing fish home and flat bottoms for easy beaching / winching up ways all don't really fit with heavy keels, heeled sailing and going upwind in general. The original dory sailing "rigs" were loose footed standing lug sails hung off sweeps (oars) for spars, basically used to go downwind and a reach at best.

    People have adapted dory designs for sailing, as the hull's reputation as a sea boat is incredible, but as soon as you add much keel, it isn't a dory anymore.

    Most good rowed small seaboats - faerings, dories etc. are not the best at sailing, although they can be pushed into role with effort. Adding keels, centerboards and rudders all add drag and make the rowing harder.

    As a Canadian with maritime roots it almost seems unpatriotic to be "dissing" the dory as a sailing boat, but that's the truth of the matter. Every hull design is optimized for a particular usage or design criteria - the dory was designed for low cost, easy build, good rowing, sculling, one-two man fishing with jigged handlines and good carrying capacity. It was not designed for sustained heeling, simple rudder mounting, upwind sailing or heavy fixed ballast. Often dories went out with some rocks for ballast that were thrown off as the fish came in.

    --
    CutOnce
     
  3. Dirteater
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    Dirteater Senior Member

    Thanks CutOnce,

    Everything you said makes sense. I guess for the most part the answer would be no. and I believe you make some good points regarding "sailing dories". I certainly agree that a Dory is a Rowboat and not a sailboat, but adaptions have been made over time via leaboards, daggerboards etc. (and now the addition of rocks for ballast. :) for sailing purposes. (not unlike the canoe).

    I've just been observing Dorys that sail and have been noticing different keels. I guess the keel is as designed.
    thanks again,

    DE
     
  4. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    See John Gardner's Dory Book from Mystic Seaport.
     
  5. Dirteater
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    Dirteater Senior Member

    Hi Bataan,
    as always... my thanks.
    you keep my library growing :D

    just checked... my local library has this one!
    fantastic!

    DE
     
  6. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    My wife is so kind to not complain about my library which threatens to take over our ancient tottering house.
     
  7. Dirteater
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    Dirteater Senior Member

    A lucky man indeed. :D
    I too over the years have made great messes, and have taken over many rooms for months to achieve my goals.
    so let this be our little homage of thanks
    to our patient partners.

    Needless to say, you can't have too many books!
     
  8. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    Well, you can have too many fiction books....
     
  9. Dirteater
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    Dirteater Senior Member

    this is true.
    can you have to may boat building books?:D

    my pocket says yes. :(
     
  10. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    Boat building is simple. Boat design and history are where the meat is.
     
  11. Dirteater
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    Dirteater Senior Member

    well said Bataan, I couldn't agree with you more. It was just a matter of a couple books that had a profound effect on me and got me started. One historical and one perhaps a little more adventurous. Both we're true non-fiction records of travel by boat. I unfortunately (but lucky all the same) to have started this path perhaps a little late in life. but hey :) I guess we all have to start somewhere. But more importantly I think it is the journey itself. I am truly amazed at the men and women, all-be-it brave or foolish that have set out to cross oceans or have taken-on long rivers and lakes. They have truly carved paths for the rest of us. It is one thing to sit down with a good book and another to sit down with a good non-fiction book that fascinates and humbles us. I think the crazy thing for me here (as I'm sure with many) is there so, so, much to learn and discover. and as you say... that is where the meat is. There's really is no time right now where I don't wonder about how something is or was done when it comes to boat exploration(s). Not unlike your picture from "Bolinas CA USA historical web site". How many stories are in that picture alone? So here I am a newbie biting of chunks of information here and there iether for my own curiousness and also to help me with my own boat building and adventures ahead. Meat and potatoes you say... there's a lot on my plate and I'm enjoying all of it.

    a side note: - I am currently working on a design with a professional eng/arch and I have stacks of books all around me these days. :eek: its all good. (and I have John Gardner's Dory Book on hold at the library). :)
    I know... friggin kid in a candy store.
     
  12. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    Once had the joyful privilege of being Captain of the NINA, the most accurate Columbus replica ever built. Darn thing taught me so many lessons so fast that I had trouble keeping up. Fifteenth century vessels have their own reality.
     

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  13. Dirteater
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    Dirteater Senior Member

    I truly cant even imagine what that must have been like!
    they say adrenaline is good for you :eek:
    How long we're you on her and how far did you travel?
    I wonder what it's like to come about? or hove to?
    I imagine you really had to have earned your stripes to be
    given the privilage of Captain. Well earned I"m sure.
     
  14. Dirteater
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    Dirteater Senior Member

    When I was a kid, I built this model. I had it on the shelf for years and eventually it made its way into a 70 gallon fish tank I once had years later. Her story however has never left me. They say she fell due to a turned over candle. Incredible ships and times.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Sovereign_of_the_Seas
     

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  15. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    Lovely, fast ship under power, or off the wind. Steers very well. Will sail above a reach if seas are flat, but otherwise forget going to windward under sail much if unladen. We were always light-ship and would have done better heavily loaded down. Was Capt for a tall ship festival in Vancouver in 2003 and some coastal delivery plus up and down the Columbia River, in all about 6 weeks or so. Being Captain means I caulked entire topsides hanging on a plank over the side in Portland because I was the only one aboard who knew how to caulk and, being Captain, was otherwise unoccupied while we had the hordes of people aboard....
    She's forgiving and extremely seaworthy in a hard blow where the stern castle helps her heave to and lack of fore-hamper assists this also.
    Deliveries are to schedule so yards are struck to deck and we power with the 130 hp Mercedes diesel with off set prop. She's a 'dockside attraction' vessel and makes $$ by charging to come aboard at the dock and look around. Not legal for charter in US but I was carpenter/caulker aboard while she chartered in Mexico in 95. We'd pack 80 passengers aboard for lovely sunset sails out of Mazatlan, where we'd motor upwind then sail home on the fading evening breeze. Very slippery and ghosts really nicely with main lifting so wind spills under to fill the foresail, so long as wind is aft. With the light going all red and orange and our cannon going BANG to say goodnight to the sun it was very charming. Was CC's favorite ship and he took her on 3 of his new world voyages.
     
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