CSM and epoxy, the two can not be done together?

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by coolgps, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. Herman
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Herman Senior Member

    If you want high-quality and dimensionally correct parts in carbon / prepreg, then a carbon tool is mandatory.

    For boating parts it might be overkill (depending on part and volume) but for industrial parts sometimes there is no other option.
     
  2. waikikin
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    waikikin Senior Member

    & on the shop floor "Choppie" is short for Chopped Strand Mat, just like "Slushie" is short for Composites Technician;) Jeff.
     
  3. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    And composites technician is long and modern for the old time LAMINATOR !! :p
     
  4. waikikin
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    waikikin Senior Member

    I think you mean Fiber Resin Interface Facilitator or FRIF!
     
  5. goodwilltoall
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    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Would only use CSM if costs where of no concern and you wanted the additional "heft" for strength that old 60-70's fiberglass boats had.
     
  6. coolgps
    Joined: Jun 2012
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    coolgps Junior Member

    Yeah, I just persuade the project director to infuse the mold. We threw away one big carbon fiber mold a week ago, just for massive void on WR300.
     
  7. coolgps
    Joined: Jun 2012
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    coolgps Junior Member

    I don't know. We also use Zero shrinkage tooling resin here,Nord2000 or 3000. It is for glass fiber mold. Somehow carbon fiber has to match up with epoxy, other poly ester resin will cheap carbon fiber.
    The explanation gives out here is coefficient of thermal expansion of carbon fiber is lower than glass fiber. But it is really costy to build a whole set of carbon fiber mold for one boat.
     
  8. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    DCockey Senior Member

    I'm curious about why a carbon tool would be needed for high-quality and dimensionally correct parts in carbon / prepreg? Is it because the tool and the carbon/prepeg need to have the same thermal coefficient of expansion?
     
  9. coolgps
    Joined: Jun 2012
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    coolgps Junior Member

    We are building a boat floating on the ocean, not a missile or F35 which requires very high dimensionally accuracy parts, those molds should be designed according to thermal coefficient of expansion very precisely.
    It is a big boat, although you pay much attention to dimensionally correction, you will get a boat distorted in some way, and you have to mend the dimensionally correct parts to fit in.
    This job bothers me all the time.
     
  10. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    To me reading this post and what you doing whoever is in charge dosent know what the hell hes doing . there is no logical plan to anything and no one with very,much knowledge at all . :confused:
     
  11. coolgps
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    coolgps Junior Member

    The plan is making the best mold, :D:D:D, disregarding cost, and my boss trust the project director because of the money earning plan he describes.
     
  12. Herman
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Herman Senior Member

    Indeed thermal expansion is the main factor for building a carbon tool for a carbon part.
    With boats and hand layup or infusion, it should all not be neccesary, but if you want to heat during cure (prepreg), you want the tool to expand the same amount as the part, if you want to be popping accurate products. (for instance parts for high accuracy measuring devices with a lot of inserts which should all be in the 1/100 mm accuracy range.)
    I have built many carbon boats in a normal epoxy tool, and if I should be doing it over, I would build a tool out of RM3000 (Tg 115 C) or perhaps RM5000 (infusible, I hate laminating)

    On carbon and polyester: check if the sizing of the fiber is compatible. I believe Toray has some 8 different sizings, some of which are compatible with polyester. Only issue is the shrinkage of the polyester, which creates a range of problems, strengthwise. Most polyester I see used in carbon production is in overlays, where UV stability is a higher demand than strength.

    And on all the different terms for workers:

    I believe this is a "windshield sanity technician"
    [​IMG]
     
  13. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    So hes ripping off someone probably the customer at the end of the day . sounds to me like the project director is a fruit cake . i never seem a carbon mould and cant see what anyone would want to do such a thing , seen steel moulds ,aluminium moulds ,and quite big resin and aluminium combinations ,and epoxy resins with aluminium powder ,,!! . carbon dosent make any sense at all its the resin that moves and the fibres dont do much at all . In some moulds we even had water cavities to warm then cool and never had a problem even after a 1000 itam came out and was still going, doing the same thing 2 years later .

    Trust !! yeah right !! thats a good one !! untill a guy proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has the knowhow and the knowledge i dont believe what anyone says .and if hes a smooth talker hes out ranked by the cleaner so hes even further down in the rankings !:confused:
     
  14. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    waikikin Senior Member

    Trust me........I'll make YOU a fortune..........building BOATS!!!

    LQQK at all the Ferraris/Porshe/Lambos/Mercs parked outside the boatshed............... must b true?
     

  15. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Yeah right !! you never make money building boats thats for sure !!
    :eek::?:
     
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