CSC 30 Catamaran- the coastal passage

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by peterchech, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Hi Silvah, thanks for your informative response to my previous post [​IMG]
     
  2. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Here's also some maybe usable further developments of the stitch and glue method . . . :cool:




    Some more of their build videos can be found at: - [​IMG] B & B Yacht Designs - and - [​IMG] Alan S

    BTW, they also designed and built a 45' Power Cat . . . :cool:

    P.S. - - Splash article.

    P.P.S. - Actually 2011 Hurricane Irene gave the 45' Power Cat hulls their first sea trial - next page - :eek:
     
  3. UpOnStands
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    UpOnStands Senior Member

    amazing

    hull on the left is a full compound surface job, one on the right is flat panel fold up. The savings seem to be great. Of course the compound surface has more volume in the bow areas. :(
     

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  4. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

  5. Bahamaboy
    Joined: Jul 2017
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    Location: The Bahamas

    Bahamaboy New Member

    Hi, i am from The Bahamas and i have been reading on Leon's CSC 30 for weeks now. This forum has given me a lot of info and i have started to build a model to see if this has the capacity that i would need to cruise the islands
     

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  6. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
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    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Plywood cats...
    You might have a look thru these 2 sites for ideas, particularly Dudley Dix's site and construction photos.
    DIX430/380 http://www.exocetus.net/dix430.html
    Boat plans, yacht designs & boat kits from Dudley Dix Yacht Design & Boat Plans http://www.dixdesign.com/index.html
     
  7. limecc
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    Location: Notts UK

    limecc New Member

    Hi Brian I just checked back and saw your links thank you for your consideration.

    Actually the past few weeks I've been weighing between foam and ply construction or a mix of the two and then a few days ago on YouTube I found how cheap 105MC's are going for nowadays which is really making me question whether to go the easy route. It has to be low cost I'm not committed to selling up what I've got on land.
     
  8. silvah
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    Location: Crystal Falls, MI

    silvah Junior Member

    Hi Limecc,

    You are right, the 105MC's can be found for a song, but you always have to ask yourself, why is that? Although I have heard several different complaints, the main one seems to be the low bridge deck height on these causes excessive bridge deck slamming. They lower the deck to get more space and a pleasing profile into these shorter catamarans. For many this is not an acceptable trade-off. With a bridge deck that dips down to 20 inches, most designers will tell you it is just not enough. Now depending on what you plan to do, this may be perfectly acceptable to you, but if you are planning on any blue water sailing, it isn't enough. The 105MC's are really coastal and calm water cruisers.

    But back on subject of the CSC-30, the value that comes out of building it yourself is that you know exactly how your boat was built and exactly how to fix it when you inevitably have an issue. It also gives you some flexibility to make it your own. I looked at some professional designs along the way and keep coming back to the CSC-30 plans. I just wish there were some more well documented builds going on. Once I get settled, I plan to build a model based on the CSC-30 plans, but with some tweaks I think will improve the design.

    Mike
     
  9. redreuben
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    Location: Beaconsfield Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

  10. sailhand
    Joined: Jan 2017
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    Location: australia

    sailhand Junior Member

    Hi just spotted this thread and thought I should contribute some thoughts and experiences. I live on a home built cat and have done for 14 years. I have been involved in many builds over the years and just a few weeks ago cut the last 2.5 metres off a schionning prowler to lengthen it by 1.4 metres as the bows were pointing towards the sky even with the house batteries mounted in the bow and i mean in the bows not in a forward locker we are talking less than a foot from the pointy end, and two big fuel tanks up there too in the same locker with electricity, just ridiculous. I think this had more to do with the build than the designer, the boats were copied in thailand. I have been on two of leons cats and have seen the problems with both the build and design. I have also seen the rot and the waste of money poured into what are essentially almost worthless boats. I know the owner of one of them well and he prompted me to write this. I live only minutes away from leon and his latest creation that he has moored in big tuan creek. The best investment you can make is in a decent set of plans from an established designer, you will save many more times the cost of the plans in the build process and end up with a valuable asset that costs less to build and in less time. The engineering in these boats, well I wouldn't go to sea in one. I really hate to step on people's dreams here and no doubt will receive a lot of flak, and probably insults from the small minded minority, however these boats should be avoided at all cost. I spend a bit of time next to the place where bob norson, the owner/editor of the coastal passage built his bob oram design. <removed> He spent some time telling me that placing carbon uni on top of and sideways across the middle of a panel increased the stiffness of the panel, in fact it had about the same effect as gluing a can of beer in the middle of the same panel, zero. I had to contact a friend of mine to tell bob norsons that gluing a rudder stock into foam with no other support was not going to work. He then printed a modification to his original rudder build on the coastal passage website, where he did the half assed fix that i suggested would be the absolute minimum fix instead of doing it properly. A designer will save you money not cost you. Whether you sell the boat or not someone else will have to eventually, will that be your kids or your wife that has to deal with this problem later. There are some fundamental problems with the whole design and I would not follow any of the ideas in those plans. <removed> Again sorry to step on people's dreams but if you had seen as many home built and designed projects end up in disastrous quantities of tears and expense as i have you would feel obliged to speak up as i am now. I am a friend of bob Oram's and my boat is a 44 ft oram catamaran, just disclosing that in case anyone thinks I have some ulterior motive for this post. Insult me now but if you don't build a leon design you will thank me later. Personally I don't really care either way but I would hate to see innocent family or friends die on one of these things. By the way it won't be my family or friends it'll be yours!!!! I don't sell any big designs I spent 9 years developing a dinghy for a tender and had so many people ask me about it I decided to sell them. I won't sell the plans to anyone in australia due to the litigious nature of our country, i can't afford professional indemnity insurance for the rest of my life and at a hundred dollars a plan there would need to be fleets of my dinghys launched every week just to cover the cost of that insurance. I spent 9 years using hydrodynamic software packages and designed the boat in Autocad and rhino. I even learnt how to use fea programs and studied engineering through University of Southern Queensland. I built 8 prototypes in total and tested them to the limit. I built molds and learnt how to resin infuse hulls. I did all this out of my own interest and curiosity I never intended to be a designer or sell designs. All this taught me two things, number one I never want to design another boat in my lifetime, number two a designer knows more than most people ever will about boats, and you get all that knowledge and support for a pittance and you save twice as much as you pay for the plans minimum by the time you finish the boat. Pay someone who knows what they are talking about and save yourself more grief than you could imagine, and have an asset that's worth something, or don't, at least you cant say you haven't been warned. I wish you all the best no matter what you do and I hope if you build one of these things it doesn’t fall apart or hurt anyone. Goodluck! !
     
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  11. silvah
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    Location: Crystal Falls, MI

    silvah Junior Member

    Hi Sailhand,

    It is good to finally have someone who has some seen this design, built, used, etc. So what are the design issues you are seeing with the CSC-30 that are so drastic you feel strongly that building and using this design could result in death? I am curious about specific issues with the design? I see you mention rot, but in my experience there are many woods boats out there that end up with this issue and it is more an issue of build quality, maintenance, and material choices.

    I don't think there are many here that would argue that a proven design has its benefits. There is clearly quite a bit to these "plans", if you want to call them that, that leaves a lot to the imagination, and to figure out on your own that would be clearly outlines in a professional plan. I think the reason folks are drawn to the CSC-30 is the idea that something could be done at 21K AUD (or 17K USD) versus the 100 or 150K or more the professional designs always seem to come out to in cost. If there are specific issues you are seeing, it would be great to get those issues identified to see if there are ways to mitigate those issues in future builds.

    Mike
     
  12. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    Mike, compare apples with apples please. Do you think 21k gets mast sails motor and rigging ?
    It gets cheap ply, handyman glue, poly resin, car bog and house paint.
    One thing in life I know, you gets what you pays for.
     
  13. sailhand
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    Location: australia

    sailhand Junior Member

    I suppose given my earlier post it seems a little contradictory but i wouldn't like to comment any further on leons design. I have decided I will get some pics of leons latest creation to post on here, and as they say a picture says a thousand words, enough said. Now as I said earlier I really hate to step on people's dreams and there is such a good vibe on this thread with everyone keen to build a boat, one of the best things you will ever do by the way, that I would like to suggest you take a leaf out of groper's book and use this forum to create an open source plan of your own that will have input from a lot of very knowledgeable people on this site. Same size boat and same low budget approach. One more comment on the build a boat for 20k this is a complete myth, it's a lie, I will simply tell you to go out and price rigging deck gear sails etc for a cat of this size, include an engine of some sort, electrical system, plumbing, safety equipment, electronics etc etc etc. Sure you could buy second hand thirty year old junk and put it all together but what do you end up with. I am currently replacing rigging and sails on a friend's 39 footer and just the sails and new wire is around the 20k mark. There is a reason a boat costs 100k plus minimum and its not because there is an island paradise somewhere full of billionaire boat builders, on the contrary most of them go bankrupt. By the way there isn't a similar island full of billionaire designers either, think about it, this is a simple excercise that dispels the myth completely just a few hours on the phone and the lie will be exposed. I could sell you a ten dollar car that never breaks down and doesn't use any fuel in a heartbeat, but it doesn't exist. An open source plan put together on this site with input from the knowledgeable people on here may get you close to the mark but it will be more realistic and achievable than the csc 30 and probably a lot better.
     
  14. silvah
    Joined: Jan 2017
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    Location: Crystal Falls, MI

    silvah Junior Member

    redreuben,

    I don't think anyone would dispute what you are saying, and that was my previous point, that a boat is a product of build quality, maintenance, and materials. Personally if I built this design or any other I would use epoxy resin, most likely West System as they are right in my backyard and a simple phone call away, and all high quality materials. I get that materials make all the difference and good ones aren't cheap.

    You can take any design and either build it with quality, or sub par materials including the CSC-30. Sailhand seemed to be indicating that there was something specific to the design that was inherently dangerous. If there are design flaws it would be good to know what those are. Much of this thread has been to pull apart this design and look at ways to improve it, that is the goal. If it is a poor design then so be it, but it seems that if you are going to say something to the effect that you are likely to die if you build this design, then it doesn't seem like it is too much to ask for specifics on the issues.
     

  15. sailhand
    Joined: Jan 2017
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    Location: australia

    sailhand Junior Member

    Hi redreuben, I really have no wish to insult leon any more. He is a nice enough guy who had a go, leave it alone. Enough people have said don't do it let's leave it at that. <removed> Maybe if you get blocked arteries in your heart you could pop over and I'll have a Crack at fixing you up, I'll do it cheap for you, I've got a sharp knife I've seen a heart in real life it can't be that hard can it. If you come and knock on my door for a heart operation then you shouldn't build anything especially not a csc30. But as Forrest says stupid is as stupid does, you have been warned. JUST DON'T DO IT. I've had my final say on this subject, if people are flat out stupid and can't take a hint then there is nothing else anybody can do to stop them it's a free world knock yourself out and try and improve the gene pool. One final point, let's say that there might be three ton compression load on the mast beam, and I pulled that figure out of a hat by the way, if I found two 6 story buildings the same distance apart as the csc hulls and put a 6 x 2 between them would you go out and stand in the middle whilst I hung three ton off the middle of that plank. If your answer is yes stay home lock the door and don't go outside unless you have supervision, and once again for clarification I will not perform open heart surgery on you or any body else. Finito
     
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