"CRUDE" oil, an absolute must see program !!!

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by brian eiland, Feb 22, 2008.

  1. Meanz Beanz
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    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    Truth is that there is nothing really logical out there yet to replace oil for transport. Scale being one of the main challenges, we can build great one off or small scale examples but replace the whole fleet? Even if we developed the perfect electric car tomorrow, aside from the issues of how the power is generated ... where is all the metal going to come from for all these batteries...? Most of this stuff is exotic, not what you call common, thats why its expensive now. Just imagine what will happen if we all wanted cars using todays battery technology.! It seems to me that we need a giant leap forward in this area.
     
  2. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    No No ofcourse not, your absalutely right,cant be done , like every one in the world will order an electric car tomorrow. I want mine delivering by 5 pm.

    You don't get it do you (upgrading my rudeness level) we have to start somewhere. If we take your advice we will never get off our fat arses and do something.

    To use your words "we will get a giant leap in technology" when people buy them. If this was'nt true we would still be running around in a model T.

    It seems to you that we need perfection before we move forward.

    100 years,-- just 100 years the Wright brother took off at Kitty Hawk. Think about it. Was it perfection? yes --for that time.

    Its not just perfection we strive for, its removing our ******* from the Arabs grip and Opec , Its removing Co2, its stabalising our economy from the massive unstable commodity oil.

    But your right, best not do anything till we are sure.

    We need young people in government some one with some ---go!
     
  3. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    But but but but we have some 10 to 15 years before the pain reaches CRUNCH and lots of things must stop where they are....?
     
  4. Meanz Beanz
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    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    I didn't say that it couldn't be done, just that no current tech is scalable to the degree required. Please don't be so completely obtuse, you show yourself up.

    What advice pray tell? Quote it verbatim, which you can't because I didn't advise... you're bullshitting again.

    Not really, we will get the leap if current methods become too expensive... hence its a high oil price that will drive change and make the investment in alternates worthwhile. People buy them now for all sorts of reasons but to see success we need the alternates to have a solid economic advantage. Thats difficult to justify while fossil fuel is cheap.

    Christ knows where you got that from... where did I say stop building electric cars or stop investing in them? You hallucinated that one! All I pointed out was that we are not there yet... the simple fact is nothing we have today really checks all the boxes. That is just reality... mind you if you spend your life running from reality in girly bars in Thailand you are bound to get upset if someone actually points reality out. WTF.... work on your comprehension!!!

    You seem to want major investment in new transport tech against a background of low oil prices. Talk about a conflicting impossibility... accept it... oil needs to be expensive, then we will invest enough in alternates to solve the problem.

    Mas... yes that is my concern, we have run out of time to effect change gracefully with minimal damage both economically and politically. This looks to be a bumpy road to me....
     
  5. Jimbo1490
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    Jimbo1490 Senior Member

    As I pointed out in an earlier post, widespread adoption of rechargeable electric vehicles will solve NOTHING, and actually make things worse. The idea the "we must do something" is a sure-fire way to a false start and wasted time and money.

    The most effective way around the coming crunch is to re-power the existing fleet of vehicles with a new liquid (or gaseous) hydrocarbon fuel NOT derived from crude oil. This might be alcohol from some source (not a food grain source) or natural gas mined or produced renewably.

    None of these can compete right now with oil, with the possible exception of alcohol derived from sugar cane and oranges. Neither is a necessary staple food, like corn or rice, so using these for fuel should not be a big problem. The example of Brazil shows that such a fuel can compete with oil right now, let alone later. But if they can compete now, this will aid in their widespread adoption before the crunch hits.

    A new fuel along with investment in newer fuel burning and nuclear electric generation plants is the logical course. But we will probably waste time fooling around with things like wind generation instead, when these have no real hope of ever supplying more than a few % of our electric demand, what with their >25% of peak production capacity.

    Jimbo
     
  6. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    You are very very wrong about electric cars not being here. Watch national geographic or History channel and see some documentaries on this stuff.

    Top gear or 5th gear test these things and hybrids daily.

    I saw a head to head with electric 4 wheel drive and a petrol 4 wheel drive vehicles.

    These vehicles were Ford or Chev I dont remember which but were all ready for delivery and readily available the petrol was faster,-- Ok no surprise, but for torque and pulling power the electric was unbeatable.

    And something you just insist on forgeting,---- no Co2
     
  7. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    OK, so try to go and buy one? then "fill it up" on a cross country drive of say 1000km?

    I looked at a Prius and could not justify the price, or even the supposed "feelgood green environmental" aspect, - - seemed lacking of something....
     
  8. Meanz Beanz
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    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    Why would anyone by a Prius? A Hyundai i30 diesel cost less, goes as far per litre (4.7/100km mixed), has massively better range and you don't have all the pollution associated with making the batteries and the expense of replacing the batteries. Nothing about that car is sensible... now if it was diesel electric it would be really saving fuel... or like the Mini QED.

     
  9. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    I am happy with a Getz, as It will last longer than expected needs.... at 13990 DANMTP - - - - BUT - - - - I still cannot buy one NOW at a reasonable price......?????????? - - if I wanted to...
     
  10. Meanz Beanz
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    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    But thats part of the point... unless its hydro, wind or nuclear the three of which are not so common, all we have done is push the CO2 production back to the coal/gas fired power plant. There is a lot of infrastructure to get right before the electric car is actually greener especially when you consider all the toxic crap that happens making those batteries.

    Even if you compare a Hummer with a Prius including the service life (300K vs 100K miles), fuel used to produce it, pollution released making all the batteries etc The Prius comes off worse than the Hummer... believe it or not. The service life being a huge factor (3 sets of batteries etc)... The stuff I have read suggests that you are much better off for CO2 etc with a Honda Jazz or any similar small 4 cylinder.

    Toyota spend billions and a bunch of pommy geeks (the Mini QED people) come up with a better solution emulating technology already used in mining dump trucks. You really have to wonder what Toyota was trying to achieve !
     
  11. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Verbal ************? I like the mini concept but PRICE and AVAILABILITY????
     
  12. Meanz Beanz
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    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    Yeah well... not yet, today the answer is still a small 4... then if we all want QED's theres the battery issue and the metals needed. A really good cheap battery made from readily available material would be kinda cool right about now ! :D

    Who U calling a timmy tanker?
     
  13. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Toy ... Toy... Toyota - there I said it.....
     
  14. Jimbo1490
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    Jimbo1490 Senior Member

    But we already know what Toyota is trying to achieve; they have a 'CAFE' problem because they sold (and continue to sell) so many bug gas guzzling pickup and SUV's. Remember that the big three American auto makers all offer diesel options for their big P/U's and SUV's, and these are very popular here in the states. I'd say about 1 in 3 or even near 1 in 2 around here is diesel. But Toyota continues to offer NO diesel option, so they take a BIG hit on CAFE as their big vehicles have 'worst in class' fuel economy. Selling the Prius at cost is just the ticket for them; it's not a decision based on 'corporate responsibility' or 'green conscience' or anything of the sort, notwithstanding the marketing.

    Jimbo
     

  15. Meanz Beanz
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    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    Sorry I shoulda done this :p :D :D :D
     
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