crowther 10 hull refit: how much ?

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by guzzis3, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. guzzis3
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    guzzis3 Senior Member

    Hi all,

    There is a bare crowther 10 hull on yachthub.

    http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-catamarans/crowther-10/103316

    I'm thinking of going to have a look, although I must be out of my mind...there are so many cheap boats about right now along the east coast of aus....

    I have a hypothetical question for the learned amongst you. If I bought that, stuck it in a boatyard, bought second hand whenever I could and paid the people at the yard to do the work how much do you suppose it'd cost to drop back in the water with a basic cruising fitout ? Assuming the owner is telling the truth and it's structurally sound ?

    Suitable second hand rigs come up fairly regularly. It'd need LOTS of toher things though, from ground tackle to hatches replacedor repaired, electrics, a yam 9.9 of course....possibly rudders and dagger boards.

    I've been running numbersd in my head but to be honest I don't know what a lot of stuff costs nowdays...

    Anyway, any thoughts (apart from don't do it, I already know that)...:)
     
  2. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    Double the first figure you come up with !
     
  3. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    If I was getting someone else to fix it I would not touch it unless the repairer was willing to go onsite and check the boat with you and give you an accurate quote that they were willing to put in writing. Keep in mind that the value in a boat isn't really the shell but the fitout, parts, engines, rigging etc. To me the price looks like more than the boat is worth should be more like $5000.00. Looks like a hole into which you can tip truckloads of money and/or years of your life.

    For what it's worth I'd have a chat to Stallion Marine and see what price they could do a Simpson Formula one catamaran for its a bit smaller 28ft and no bridgedeck but they may do a new one out of the molds they have bought to lockup for less than you think.
     
  4. guzzis3
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    guzzis3 Senior Member

    Thank you for the reply.

    There is a F1 in airlie at the moment,

    http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-catamarans/simpson-formula-1/96215

    $43 asking

    and a c10 opendeck in cairns.

    http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-catamarans/crowther-10-sports-cruiser/64570

    asking $70.

    My main concern about the F1 is the size of the berths. The boss has a chronic illness and spends a lot of time sleeping. The berth needs to be comfortable. Otherwise something like that would be nice. I don't suppose anyone knows how big the berths are in an F1 ? It'd only be me or the two of us sailing coastal...

    There is also a gypsy for $29 here in brisbane

    http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=11465921

    which looks like remarkable value, except I'm over plywood.

    The thing is if I were to build a 30' cat it'd be pretty much that hull. Aft generous doubles, solid glass to waterline and foam above. And of course the boss would be happy which is all important :)

    But as you say it's a money pit. You gotta wonder why someone would strip and boat and throw away or sell all the ancillaries....even if they are shagged they serve as patterns.

    And just for fun there is this:

    http://au.yachtworld.com/boats/1978/Catalac-9-2431468/United-Kingdom

    Sheesh, you never see prices like that in aus :) I know it's a catalac and it's old (not as old as me) but hey it's comfy! I don't think I've ever seen a separate shower room in a cat that size... :)
     
  5. sabahcat
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    sabahcat Senior Member

  6. Milehog
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    Milehog Clever Quip

    Prolly 'cause the ancillaries were the only thing of value.
    If they can't sell the hull I wonder what they would have to pay for disposal.
     
  7. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    The C10 you listed in your last post looks like much better value I'd take a sailable boat on the water any day over the boat on the hard with everything missing with a hullshell in "good condition".

    If you deduct 15k from the 70k asking price on the boat thats in sailable condition your left with 55k difference. I don't think that you could fit out the boat shell and put a new rig, engines, sails, fittings, electronics onto the shell boat to the same standard for anywhere near that even if you bought secondhand.

    If you were a boatbuilder by trade and were running a yard with lots of bits lying around that would suit the boat I could see the shell making sense but for the man in the street cant see the logic in buying a shell (an old one at that).
     
  8. rberrey
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    rberrey Senior Member

    I hope you're wrong Corley, I plan on fitting out a 31' build on a lot less than 55k. My math comes out to around 30k + or -,inboard engine, portlights, mast ,sails , stove, ect. But I cant see more than 20K in new material for new hulls, no way I,d spend 15k on hulls that old , more less spend money on a total refit. Rick
     
  9. sabahcat
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    sabahcat Senior Member

    Having built something of similar size in the past I was looking at it thinking it was sound under all the crud it was a good head start and I would have jumped at it if it was available back in the day.

    How much time and $$, inc. site rental, would it cost to get to that stage if building from scratch?
     
  10. rberrey
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    rberrey Senior Member

    My site rental will be $100.00 a mo. , there is an opened barn and I bought a 20'x48' tent $1100. Material for 31' , 5200 disp tri: foam , glass, epoxy,+ 15% extra material, tools,ect. to complete the hull shell 17k + or -. I have collected all material for the hull so I can complete the hull and have it in the water within the year. So in my case say 2.5k site and building, total of 19.5k with out the paint , another 5k paint and miss. rick.
     
  11. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    It depends how much Guzzi wants to do himself but the original post was coming at it from the perspective of having the repairs completed by a proffesional. If paying for labour is part of the equation I dont think 55k will go too far. I guess it depends how desperate boat repairers are for work just now. The boats an empty shell there are quite a few man hours in fitting it out. It looks like the bare shell needs everything if Guzzi was content with only partially fitting out the boat then I think he would reduce his costs. You can spend a lot or a little depending on what level of finish your after or willing to accept.

    I've been doing the numbers myself lately for my build. What I think blows the budget is mast, rigging and sails if your willing to buy a mast section and fit it out yourself and buy basic sails it makes it more affordable. David Lambourne has a good reputation for providing a basic section with parts to complete could be an option for keeping the price down.

    btw when I went on a formula one I thought the berths were decently sized it felt quite roomy for a 28' boat the poptops on the hulls really enhance the feeling of space. So many things are personal on that front what I consider cosy my wife thinks is claustrophobic.
     
  12. sabahcat
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    sabahcat Senior Member

    Plus your labour
    If you were working and getting paid how much extra would that be worth?
     
  13. rberrey
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    rberrey Senior Member

    I did,nt catch the part of paying someone else , 55k might be lite in that case. Your right about mast , sails, rigging, my mast est was $6500 two years ago. I,m buying items from ebay and craigslist and saveing 50% or better on new items.I,m going to try to come in around 15k to 17k on those items. I will have some extra ( new but old) Andersen # 10 standard winches and handles from a craigslist buy. Lets say labour at $18 hr, 600 man hrs.to that point $10,800 , depending if you figuar in a mod rate a lot more. But my kin folks work for free , or cheep beer, so maybe 40 cases . Rick
     
  14. sabahcat
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    sabahcat Senior Member

    $18 an hour want a job?
    Flat out getting anyone here worthwhile for double that
     

  15. guzzis3
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    guzzis3 Senior Member

    Hi again,

    Nice to see so many useful replies.

    I had thought something along the lines of $30k to aquire and step a second hand mast, jib, main and the associated rigging, plus a VERY basic fitout inside, hull repairs and a motor.

    Be aware some of you appear to not be in Australia and our labour charges are rather different to say the US for example.

    I did warn you it was an old catalac :D

    The boss is keen on flying, not really interested in sailing, and as I say long term sick. Like many women she prefers me in the same bed, and herself spends 16 plus hours a day in there, so comfy singles aren't going to cut it.

    Camping afloat she will put up with but she needs somewhere comfy to sleep, and I want a head and some sort of shower. I'm really not interested in "super yachts" and fancy finishes.

    Also I'd be doing it to to last a few years then refit properly. I wouldn't cut on safety but luxury and finish wouldn't matter.

    A couple more of interest:

    http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-catamarans/crowther-eureka/85273

    I don't know what's involved in bringing it into Australia but of course a much nicer boat than the catalac :)

    And of course there are always the optimists:

    http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=7313477

    This "broker" can't even list the boat in the right section.

    http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=11860041

    Maybe there is a reason it's $120 but I can't see it.

    There was a 30' super beach cat at the gold coast about 6 months back, glass, similar to a GBE but bigger and flush bows as I recall, maybe even had the trailer. It went for $20k. I didn't look because the hulls are necessarily 4' maximum beam so I'd have had to build a pod. I imagine the F1 hulls are only 4' or thereabouts...


    If you compare the hull to a scratch build it probably makes sense, transport notwithstanding, but I don't have the time to do a scratch build.

    Again thank you for the thoughts.
     
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