creating expanded panels for flat bottom skiff

Discussion in 'Software' started by ddoyle, Apr 3, 2014.

  1. ddoyle
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: Northern British Columbia

    ddoyle Junior Member

    Howdy:

    I have been lurking around here for years trying to teach myself how to create expanded side panel shapes in freeship from a table of offsets so as to be able to build a Chapelle drawn skiff in plywood with epoxy fillets.

    despite all the excellent instructions/tutorials and despite haveing a printed version of the manual I have given up.

    I am wondering if anyone would accept payment in cash or Karma to create a file I could use in freeship to generate expanded side panels for this boat?

    Below is a photo of the boat, one of the excel files I worked with and the original offset table.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
  2. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Which design is the boat?

    The reverse curve in the keel strip forward is very unusual. Is it also in the drawing?
     
  3. ddoyle
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: Northern British Columbia

    ddoyle Junior Member

    David:

    It is the "Piscataqua River Gunning Skiff" Taken off at Adam's Point New Hampshire in 1936.

    The boat is designed to be sculled with a single oar out the transom by a man laying down. No wake, no wiggle and no "slap" is the order of the day.

    Yes the reverse curve seems to be a feature of these boats. I built an Aliviso Mud boat designed for the same purpose and it has reverse in the forward section which really helps to keep the slap to a minimum.

    These are very interesting boats to own and fun to travel in. You slide thru the water totally silent and for the most part ignored by most critters. Once the sculling technique is learned you can travel at very respectable clip while lounging in a reclined and comfortable position.
     
  4. thudpucker
    Joined: Jul 2007
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    thudpucker Senior Member

    Excuse me: What are "expanded Panels"?
    Are they in the photo of the Boat?
     
  5. ddoyle
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: Northern British Columbia

    ddoyle Junior Member

    Maybe I am using the wrong term. I mean the shape/pattern of the sides of the boat.

    If I can get the offsets into freeship I can export the shape of the plywood I need to cut out to form the sides. From there I can easily build the boat.
     
  6. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    You spent years trying to figure out how to expand panels so you could cut them to shape accurately ? Doesn't sound like it was a short-cut ! Would it not have been easier to just lay sheets slightly bigger over the frames and just trim them to size, or use throw-away templates ?
     
  7. ddoyle
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: Northern British Columbia

    ddoyle Junior Member

    Not really sure what kind of reply you are expecting? Are you offering help?
     
  8. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    No mate, I cannot help, except to advise that when bashing your head against a brick wall, it feels much better when you stop ! Seems to me you just refused to be "beaten" but unfortunately will-power wasn't enough to get the job done. I give up more easily and look for easier ways, as a follower of the Dirty Harry philosophy that a man has to know his limitations. :p
     
  9. XJ9
    Joined: Mar 2012
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    Location: Tasmania

    XJ9 Junior Member

    I could be wrong, but it looks like your spreadsheet might have a couple of the stations mis-spaced. Can you post the original offsets table again with the rest of the plan view(s) and without the blurred measurement at the right hand side? I can't quite make out the last measurement - is it 24" or something else?

    I don't have any experience with freeship, but I just downloaded a copy to try. I have previously used Carlson Design's Hulls, which allows you to print out a plan of the parts to fit on sheets of ply - you then just need to transfer the measurements from paper to ply. However, the number of stations in the version of Hulls I have is limited and probably wouldn't suit he lines of this boat. I might go and see if there is an updated version of Hulls available, just in case.

    Simon
     
  10. ddoyle
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: Northern British Columbia

    ddoyle Junior Member

    Simon you are spot on correct, it is Hulls that generates the panels. I have been playing with both.


    Here is another image. St 5 and 6 half breadths are blurry even on the original. Grand little boat eh. Built in 1/4 ply instead of 3/4 pine her WL would likely need to be adjusted with ballast.


    And here is a pic of a similiar boat which I built using Mrefficiency's method of hanging over size panels on frames and using a batten to scribe the shape;) Worked well enough. But I no longer have the same resources in space/time so I am looking for a way to expediate the process. Scarf the ply- jig saw two panels- nail temp spreaders/transom/stem -glue on the bottom-trim the bottom-fillets tape-glass. Quick and no need for a rock solid strongback and robust frames.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
  11. ludesign
    Joined: Aug 2003
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    ludesign Senior Member

    Ten minutes in TouchCAD

    Ten minutes in TouchCAD
     

    Attached Files:

  12. ddoyle
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: Northern British Columbia

    ddoyle Junior Member

    Care to share the fruits of your labour?
     
  13. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    You can get the patterns in less than an hour by building to scale with cardboard and expanding the panels. This are really simple shapes.
     
  14. oceannavigator2

    oceannavigator2 Previous Member

    I'd like to know more about this boat. Is there a history to read? There is no way in hell you could scull your way in and out of the Piscataqua River. Even in 1936. The current is a reversing 4 knots average. Goes downriver at that clip, then reverses to go up river. A very, very tricky place, full of rocks, boulders and bridges you can't clear.

    Traffic wise, there are full size ships going up and down the channel as well as damn NUCLEAR SUBS! ha ha ha ha. If you venture too close to the wrong side of the river, the US Navy will visit you and make you leave or send you on a well deserved vacation to Guantanamo. Add in several mooring fields and boats with moorings right in the current, commercial fishing boats and a carpet of lobster pots at the harbor mouth, where there are frequently standing waves to greet you.

    It's where I grew up sailing. Glad I learned there. Makes every other harbor easy. ;)
     

  15. ddoyle
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    Location: Northern British Columbia

    ddoyle Junior Member

    " There is no way in hell you could scull your way in and out of the Piscataqua River. Even in 1936. The current is a reversing 4 knots average. Goes downriver at that clip, then reverses to go up river. A very, very tricky place, full of rocks, boulders and bridges you can't clear. "

    Oceannavigator:

    Yep you're right. No way a man could use this boat. I mean he would have to lay down and content himself with working with the tide........ notice the comb height, the solid bulkhead and the 3/4 pine construction that boat was made by a man who knew how many ways a tidal river can kill ya. You forgot to mention the ice in the river LOL.

    No there is no such thing as a single stop history of these boats and thier use. You can mine some info out of the internet like always though there is as much B.S as truth out there. The general rule with these boats is guys do not advertise thier existence and the most ardent of them will burn an unused hull in favor of selling it locally to guard against future competition. Now adays however not many are interested in the steep multi year learning curve or the physical discomfort and patience required to make them work so there is little fear of over populating the continent's waters with these floats.

    I have a rare and daming addiction to the technique and will issue a warning that if you happen to aqquire it there is no cure.

    The best photos I have of historic scull floats come from New Hampshire Museums. Heck you guys even used to carve solid roundbottomed hulls out of a single log for the purpose!

    You may still be able to find a copy of the nov 2013 issue of Waterfowl magazine. There are a few pages in there on the western slant to the boats. Take everything in the article with 2 grains of salt. The Newyork Times has an article on-line from the 90s about an old boy in Merrymeeting Bay still sculling his 70 year boat and oar. Google "screening boat" for an old article on a variation used in the great lakes. Or for even wider variation learn some dutch boat terms and see how crafty Europeans are in the salt marshes. There are some articles at "lock stock barrell.com" and some information at Bankes Boats.

    If you are really interested in learning about these boats, the oars and how they are used I will happily mail you a 5 pound package of hardcopy and digital information gleened over 5 years of research in exchange for a a .HUL file of the boat!

    Heck you know what I'll up the anty if you make a real nice smoothed and faired model of the boat and send me a .hul file I'll carve and steam bend for you a traditional sculling oar from old growth spruce, the blank is in the rafters as we speak, perfect grain 75 years of growth in your hand.......... (S&T charge a few hundred for one) (can't pay the shipping on it though) FYI if I had to choose to save my favorite oar or my boat in a fire I would save the oar. The oar is where the magic is.
     
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