Crazy fool plan?

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by SV_Harbinger, May 19, 2018.

  1. SV_Harbinger
    Joined: May 2018
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    SV_Harbinger Junior Member

    Hello everyone,
    I'm trying to get information on a very specific design if possible and this seems like a good place to get steered in the right direction.
    So here it is, when I was growing up we had an old 1950 Chris Craft 16' Express kit boat. Unfortunately she has been lost to time, but I have been talking with my father and he really seems to miss the old boat. I do not think I would be able to find another example of that boat in anything like a repairable condition. However I got to thinking that, maybe, there would be plans out there somewhere, that would allow me to build one.
    From what I remember there didn't seem to be a whole lot to her and she was ply on frame with a hard chine so building one shouldn't pose and insurmountable challenges (I don't think it will anyway) So the question I have really is where do I go to find those plans or am I about to set out on a wild goose chase (also the Almighty Google, has proven to be a disappointment)
     
  2. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Welcome to the forum.

    Amazingly enough these are still around, though most are landfill material, some have been kept well and are repairable and some even restored. The hull form was a simple plank (plywood) over frames and a few longitudinal stringers. It was a typical warped bottom of the era and could get up and scoot pretty good, so long as you didn't ask too much of this hull type. They pounded pretty bad if speeds got near 35 MPH, but below this pretty comfortable, maneuverable and mostly dry running, with their external chine.

    Plans for this type of hull number in the hundreds and all you'd need to do is add the 50's Chris Craft styling clues. The kit boats came in various sizes, depending on the year.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Chris Craft had a lot of "models" though many were simply stretched versions of previous ones, some were oddballs. Do you remember which model you had? Can you describe it more accurately (utility, open cockpit, forward cockpit, runabout, etc.), was it really 16' on deck or could it have been 15' or 17', etc., etc., etc.
     
  3. SV_Harbinger
    Joined: May 2018
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    SV_Harbinger Junior Member

    I'll do my best as this was about 30 years ago.
    The exact year I believe was 1951, but I'm a little fuzzy on that. If we could have found any of the pictures from back then that would make things so much easier but from cruising Google I did find a picture that seems fairly spot on, I'll attach it to this. The only difference I can see with these is that I don't remember the sheer having such a step in it, but it very well could have, it was a good few years ago now. But what you were saying about the ride is similar to what I remember, she only had, I think, a 40hp Johnson and moved along very well, dry enough, but we never took her very far. main.jpg 1315578635_1736.jpg
     
  4. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    fallguy Senior Member

    I had a kit CC Sedan. I burned it and sold a lot of high quality parts and profited.

    If you find someone who can setup a rss feed; these come up on clist or other classifieds and are restorable, but restoration of classics is costly as heck because the good mahogany is spendy.

    Building such a boat from the ground up is a large hours investment.

    If you want to build a classic replica; you might be better off looking for plans on bateau.com or glen-l.

    If you want to spend the money; you can even get replicas made from the ground up by third parties. I know a guy.
     
  5. SV_Harbinger
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    SV_Harbinger Junior Member

    The goal is to build a replica, but it's more of an exercise in sentimentality than one of actual fiscal sense, hence the crazy fool plan.
    The old man is getting well quite old, and I have the tools, ability and more importantly the cash flow to make it happen, there is also a very nice brick wall in the workshop for when the forehead gets itchy lol
     
  6. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell Ahhhhh...

    I would hugely recommend a recreation over a restoration or a replica.
    You'll end up with a much better boat for less money.
     
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  7. SV_Harbinger
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    SV_Harbinger Junior Member

    I'm a little fuzzy, what is the difference exactly between a replica and a recreation? To me they sound very similar.
     
  8. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    A replica is an exact redo of what you want, while a recreation may look like what you want, but may use modern methods or different methods, modern engineering, etc.

    For you, a recreation is a better choice, as you can save money on materials and labor, using modern build methods and materials. It'll still look like what you want, but will likely be lighter, so more efficient and easier to create. Plans for pre 63 series hull forms, in the 15' - 16' length abound. If were you, I'd choose one with a little more deadrise than the origional, so it will handle chop better.
     
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  9. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Building one of these as a monocoque stitch and glue structure with epoxy is actually really fun, more if you have any woodworking experience or tools. I'd look for a plan. That can take awhile to weed through them. I'd crudely estimate about $5000 in materials, add some for trailers and engine can vary from $400 for an oldie to $5000 for a new 50hp. PAR also gives you some great advice on the deadrise matter. I don't like to give hours estimates on a boat I didn't build, but I'd guess 500-1000 hours. When done, you have a brand new boat.

    It doesn't have to be done s&g, but those are a bit easier to build, only if you want a certain look on the inside s&g won't give you that..
     
  10. SV_Harbinger
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    SV_Harbinger Junior Member

    I see, that makes sense, and Fallguy your crude estimate is about half of what I guesstimated it would cost. I already have a 50hp Tohatsu that I've earmarked for her when she's done, and trailers aren't an issue, I'm currently sitting on 3 possible candidates (2 bunk trailers and a roller, although from sitting all will need a whole lot of work to make road worthy) I like Pars idea of increased dead rise, however I am hesitant to change the design. She's the boat that got me on the water initially, my father's old boat, and I am hoping to give her to him for his 70th next year. I guess what I'm really looking for is a direction to go in for a set of lofting plans to bring her back to life.
    Personally I like the stitch and glue idea but keeping the Interior feel of the boat is imperative. I know it will cost more and will likely be far more difficult, (I know production Chris Crafts were largely mahogany, not sure about the kits, but I would assume they were.) To make her to 1950s spec but to me it is well worth the extra hassle.
    Out of all the boats he has owned, he always comes back to this one, and I would like to recreate her as accurately as possible.
     
  11. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The Chris Craft kits were mostly plywood, with some trim mahogany to pretty them up, if you sprung for the additional fees. The pre 63 series hull forms just aren't very good compaired to what we've learned in the nearly 3/4's of a century since their conception. Again, you can fancy it up however you like, maybe even using faux frames of PVC, instead of solid lumber, but a taped seam (stitch and glue) build will be more solid, less likely to leak and will ride better. Save the bother of all the effort, money and materials and just provide the impression of the kit's plank over frames, while enjoying the improved abilities and ride quality of the more modern hull form.
     
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  12. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    I had a CC kit boat that was all douglas fir planking, mahogany frames.

    I would strongly recommend s&g for speed of build, simplicity, and quality. You can even faux finish the interior to look like a framed boat if you like as Paul suggested.

    If you spend more money, sometimes you can get parts cut by cnc and save some time.

    If you want a better estimate; check out bateau.com. Find a similar plan and ask for a price for the supplies. I am not far off on the basics. You can get pretty fancy on fitout and spend more.

    You can also bright finish okume plywood and it can be very beautiful. Or you could trimout things like a dashboard in solid mahogany for a closer match.

    I actually own a 1960 Carver Commander. It is cold molded mahogany with a 5/4 10" wide piece of mahogany for the dash. The original design had it covered in naugahyde which was weather beaten. When I removed it and saw the nearly perfectly preserved mahogany, I was jubilant. It isn't that CC, but still a nice 58 year old boat.
     
  13. SV_Harbinger
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    SV_Harbinger Junior Member

    Ok so, stitch and glue wins, but that still leaves the issue of the hull ...plates? ... Even in stitch and glue there is some lofting involved and I still have to track down plans for that. I'm a pretty good wood butcher but I don't think I'll be up to the task of building from eye something I last saw 30 years ago, lol, or at least not if I expect it to function in any practical way. (Insert image of boat floating upsidedown here)
     
  14. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Found one in MN (maybe).

    Kizmet.

    You can google it. The owner is in the ACBS. Those guys are pretty friendly generally.

    Try to contact him.
     

  15. SV_Harbinger
    Joined: May 2018
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    Location: USA

    SV_Harbinger Junior Member

    I'll give that a try and see where that goes, and I will keep you guys posted. Thank you all for the advice and help so far.
     
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