could olde-time sailing ship replica be comfy live-aboard and slow passage maker?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Squidly-Diddly, Jan 17, 2021.

  1. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    Santa María (ship) - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Mar%C3%ADa_(ship)

    Under 70' long but with 18' beam you could carry a small car on deck if a section of the railing folded down. Roll off and on with a couple stout gang planks. Looks like lots of freeboard and I like how the bow and stern are nice and high and look like they'd make nice patio areas. Modernize the rigging into something that doesn't require 40 hands on deck. Build the hull out of welded steel chines (maybe 8 chines a side). Diesel engine for back up power of course.

    If the wooden version in the days without weather info was considered GTG to cross oceans on its own I'd say a modern steel version would be too, and good for bug-out if SHTF, etc.

    Big compliant about many modern cabin cruisers is they become wide and tall and "just floating condos" because that is what most people want. If you aren't in a hurry, and/or want a sea worthy "floating condo" able to sail really far maybe retro is a way to go.
     
  2. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    That Santa Maria is only 19 metres long, but they say that her displacement is 150 tonnes - yikes!

    Re your brief SOR above, I am thinking that something like a Benford Florida Bay Coaster would probably be much more suitable all around?
    Benford Design Group http://www.benford.us/index.html?coasters/
    You could even add a bit of steadying sail perhaps - and she would no doubt still sail better than the Santa Maria.
     
  3. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    I'm guessing much of that 150 tonnes is rock ballast, which today could be fresh and saltwater ballast.
    But is Benford rated for crossing oceans?
     
  4. BlueBell
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    BlueBell "Whatever..."

    I believe the key-word here is:
    REPLICA
    It is not the vessel in the link.
    However, fine as a liveaboard, if you like living in steel.
     
  5. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    They talk about a 2,000 mile range typically for these Coasters, but I am not too sure about taking one of them across an ocean.
    Google brings up lots about them.
    Florida Bay Coasters http://floridabaycoasters.com/

    Including one called Teddi Bear built in New Zealand
    55' Florida Bay Coaster | Johnson Yachts International Ltd http://johnsonyachts.co.nz/55-florida-bay-coaster/

    Here is a 45' version for sale -
    1991 Florida Bay Coaster Trawler for sale - YachtWorld https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1991/florida-bay-coaster-3727239/
     
  6. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    Why would you other then looks? For the same amount of material and work you can have a modern boat that performs much better in all categories. The modern equivalent of bow and stern castels are flybridges and sundecks.
     
  7. The Q
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    The Q Senior Member

    They were essentially freighters, intending to find a route to the Spice Islands, They would be hoping to toss much of the ballast overboard to pick up a valuable cargo for the way back..
     
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  8. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    partly the looks, but I'm also liking the two raised structures at either end VS central for same reasons I hear people like a cat with its two hulls, but better for every day live-aboard floating condo use. I could see walking out to wide central deck from raised bow and stern structures being a lot more ergonomic than climbing in and out of narrow cat hulls.
    Also the guaranteed default seaworthiness of the design. I've heard the reason these ships had raised bow and even more raised stern was bow of course to handle big waves but the stern was raised even more so that when everything went to hell in a storm the raised stern would keep the ship pointed into the wind and waves.
    The several masts and spars could make awnings or even walkable/lounge trapolines possible for extra space in port.
     
  9. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Old style boats seemed to get destroyed on a regular basis since they can't sail to windward well.

    Put in a big motor or just remain in the 20th century at least.
     
  10. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    Ok, if it's for the looks, get a designer and specify from the start, "I want the looks, I want the castels, I don't care what you do to the underbody". That's because, to say it politely, the originals were not exactly a paradigm of seaworthiness and safety.
    I recommend you visit one of the replicas in person, the closest to you is the San Salvador in San Diego, but it's a much bigger boat then the Santa Maria.
     
  11. fredrosse
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    fredrosse USACE Steam

    I have been aboard the Mathew, Cabot's ship of 1497, the replica is faithful to the original, except it has a 200 horsepower Cat Diesel. Seems to me it would be a nice option, especially compared to the 3 story high boats pictured earlier in this thread, which, at least to my mind, are about as ugly as it gets. Check it out on Wikipedia.
     
  12. KeithO
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    KeithO Senior Member

    bartolomeu-dias-museum.jpg
    karavelle.jpg [​IMG]
    The Bartolomeu Dias Museum Complex in Mossel Bay, South Africa
    Bartolomeu Dias Museum Complex - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartolomeu_Dias_Museum_Complex
    has a replica portugese gallion which was built in the 80's and actually sailed from Portugal to the site. Obviously the crew who did the delivery was very experienced and it was not disclosed what sort of things they had to endure or how much weather they had to wait out on the way. But it is an opportunity to see a recently built example of such a vessel up close to confirm your feelings on the subject.
     
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  13. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    besides obvious low tech limitations like no radio, good pumps, etc, what exactly about the DESIGN (shapes) makes them unseaworthy and unsafe?
    I guess maybe some of the bows could be a bit finer but maybe that was due to construction methods and their purpose as floating forts, or their need to weather unexpected storms without chance of rescue. Other than that they seem like normal slow speed big boats.galleon model ship at DuckDuckGo https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=galleon+model+ship&atb=v208-1&iax=images&ia=images
    Seems to me these olden sailing ships are similar in overall shape to modern North Atlantic Fishing Trawler, but with old sailing ship looking more live-aboard friendly.
    north atlantic fishing trawler model at DuckDuckGo https://duckduckgo.com/?q=north+atlantic+fishing+trawler+model&t=ffab&atb=v208-1&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images
    I'm thinking a modern steel replica would have bilge keels for settling in shallow water at low tide.
     

  14. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    First you have to differentiate between the different types of vessel, caravel, carrack an galleon. They have different purposes and bodyshapes. The pictures in post 12 are of a caravel, and as you see there is no forecastle, a very moderate aftcastle and the hullshape is elliptical. Carracks had round hulls with bluff bows, and really high fore and aftcastels. Galleons get a more U form hull and low or no forecastle, but keep high aftcastles. This is a form that would go on for the next 150+ years, growing in size.
    The big problem with most of this designs is that they were designed with internal ballast (rocks and sand) and high topsides. This means high center of gravity, tender behaviour, big roll periods and not a lot of sail carrying ability for their weight. The best known galleon is the Vasa, wich sunk after sailing less then a mile. Vasa (ship) - Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship)
    Yes they crossed oceans, but many were lost, and it's not the constructions fault, they were buildt strong enough, it's the design. A modern copy can certainly adress all the shortcomings of the originals, but you have to let the designer do his job.
    If you want a three story forecastle on a 70ft boat, well, even the best designer can not make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
     
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