Could a paddlewheel be placed at the front?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by djwkd, Jun 14, 2010.

  1. djwkd
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    djwkd Senior Member

    Ok, maybe I should run over the reasons behind the design.

    My personal briefing was a raft that would be self-sustainable (I'm pretty sure I used the wrong word there, but you'll see what I mean when I use the closing bracket) - the (majority of the) electricity should be generated on board, and it would also be nice for it to be human powered. It also must be a size that can be somewhat lived aboard, at least for a month at a time (for this reason, I have extended the design, and may extend it more).

    So my question now is - what propulsion could I use instead of a paddlewheel, that would still be eco friendly? I have seen people ask about using a bike to power a battery, alongside Solar panels, but the answer was a blunt no.

    So has anyone got any suggestions, or would it just have to be motor power?

    EDIT: Hmm...would it be possible to have a (fairly) large battery bank and have it part charged by solar, part by simply charging it, and have this power an electric outboard?
     
  2. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Having ample roof space you could of course use pv panels, batteries and a Torqueedo motor (probably sometimes charging with shore power too), but for which cost? A simple outboard would be a third of that or less.

    And such a house would be fine on the broads or Loch Lomond, but only on calm and sunny days.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  3. Fanie
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    Fanie Fanie

    I agree with Richard. Outboards are the least complicated solution with the most output for size and weight.

    Someone with a houseboat got pushed into the rocks at my one firend's place - he has a house right on the dam (small lake). The too small motor fitted could not turn the houseboat against the wind. I didn't see it but my friend said it was destroyed.

    You can calculate the power required - calculate the biggest wind area (usually the side) and Wind force at 20kts is about 7.32kg/m2. Keep in mind the wind has a lever advantage if the motor is aft and the wind pushes against the front !
     
  4. djwkd
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    djwkd Senior Member


    Ok. Is this because of the shape of it (I.E long and narrow) or just because all houseboats/liveaboards are only suited to inland waterways?

    Would really need this to be suitable for river travel and maybe a bit of coast-hogging if I ever wanted to (if I ever build it, that is :)). Should I just go entirely back to the drawing board, or should I make it wider?

    Current dimensions are

    40' long x 10' beam x 1' uhh...high.
     
  5. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    The latter.

    Though rivers are within that range, of course, given the propulsion has enough power, coastal NO.
    Too much windage too high the superstructure. These sorts of "craft" drift sideways in the lightest breeze, when you are in coastal waters, that can be a death trap. (apart from stability issues)

    Glen L and Atkin have some houseboats (when I remember right), which probably would fit your requirements better (still not the idea about propulsion though).

    this maybe:
    https://www.boatdesigns.com/45-Bon-Voyage-steel-plywood-fiberglass/products/165/

    Regards
    Richard
     
  6. ancient kayaker
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    How deep is the water? It may be a lot simpler, easier and more effective to pole it along. A paddlewheel is inefficient. Efficiency is important in a human powered craft: a houseboat the size and shape you are showing would require at least 10 hp IMHO to creep along at a slow walking speed and would be brought almost to a standstill by a modest headwind. Most of that energy goes into stirring up the water, whereas a pole doesn't do that, all your energy will go into pushing the boat along or at least holding it still against wind and current while you take a breather.
     
  7. djwkd
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    djwkd Senior Member

    Hi,
    When I say river, I mean the part of the navigable river near me. This is only a stretch of about 10 miles to the sea, with the majority of it being tidal. So it does need to be coastal to some degree. If I have the cabin shorter - say 4.5ft and sunk slightly below the waterline, would that be good, or no good?
     
  8. ancient kayaker
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    I am concerned about safety. If the water is shallow in a tidal estuary currents may be too fast for your craft. If deep, there will be waves. Either way the possibility of being swept out to sea should be a concern. This starting to sound like a bad idea.
     
  9. djwkd
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    djwkd Senior Member

    Have just looked on the interwebs about houseboats on my local river - after thinking that I hadn't seen any - and came across this thread - http://forums.icnewcastle.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8685

    In short, you can't have houseboats on the tyne. There is a marina there, but no real houseboats. So now I'm thinking about a different venue for such a craft ;)

    In the meantime - would it be more plausible if the cabin was sunk about 8"-9" below the waterline and have the cabin only 5' high, meaning that the highest point is only 4.25' above the deck?
     
  10. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Lowering the center of gravity has a obvious advantage yes. But you would sacrifice a lot of living space, as obvious.

    Maybe a completely different approach would make sense?

    I have a proper SOR in mind.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  11. djwkd
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    djwkd Senior Member

    The houseboats cabins were 5' originally, then 6', so going back to 5' doesn't bother me terribly. Would make it wider so that I would get more than 3.5' width in the cabin...Will get a design done soon and will post.

    I know I sound stupid in asking this, but what is a SOR? Tried googling, but got nothing...
     
  12. yipster
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    yipster designer

    SOR = statement of requirements. its the start
    something to have before you start designing
    it sort of fills the design envelloppe so to speak
    must say i was gettin similar thoughts like
    mentioning to read up on elementarys first
    there's a big diffrence between boats and rafts
    but both get you into all sorts of problems easy
     
  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

  14. kroberts
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    kroberts Senior Member

    I think the SOR is something for later.

    First, go rent one of the human powered paddle boats for at least 4 hours, and pedal it continuously during that time.

    From the number of posts you've made I would expect a certain amount of boating experience. From the pictures and descriptions you've made, though, you sound like you've never really been in a boat.

    Keep in mind I'm NOT posing as a boat expert, and have never built nor designed a boat. I've been involved with boats for awhile, but at least one of the guys on this thread are professionals.

    You have 2 fluid streams to worry about here: The water current, and the wind. Your worst case is with the wind going the same direction as the current, and you wanting to go upstream. In that case you need to overcome the force of wind AND the force of current, and go the speed of the current in order to stay in the same place on the river. Going upstream generally means going some significant speed faster than the current. The river I'm closest to has a 3 knot current. There's another one that is nearby, that is closer to 7 knots in the stretch near me. 7 knots is a run, IMO since I can't walk that fast. Are you going to pedal any sort of house boat faster than you can run, for long enough to even clear the dock?

    Next thing: You're talking about 10 miles out to sea on this? If that doesn't terrify you it should.
     

  15. Fanie
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    Fanie Fanie

    I think you got some sound advice so far. If you stick to inland waters you probably should be ok if you compensate for wind with a decent size outboard (or two).

    That boat is not going to make it on the sea, that's a given for sure. Have a look at the hull shapes of sea going boats and ask yourself why they look like that.

    In both inland and sea the wind is a serious factor to consider, at sea it is just worse and the waves are going to be hell to play.
     
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