Costing a Build (approximately)

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by mattnedgus, Oct 3, 2007.

  1. mattnedgus
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    mattnedgus Junior Member

    Thanks again,

    Yesterday I started to read "Voyaging on a Small Income" which has given me some hope that it is possible to build something relatively cheap - although when Pete and Annie Hill built there badger for £11,000 it was between 1980-83! I would reckon nowadays it would cost towards £20,000 for the same project as theirs! They used junk sails too which sound very DIY dooable.

    I am wondering if it would be better to buy an older (1950's) yacht (~£8k) in need of minor maintenance (+£2k) to use for a few years and then considering building something later on?

    At least that way I can build up some experience and get into sailing to make sure it's for me before planning to outlay £20k!

    :)
     
  2. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    I am wondering if it would be better to buy an older (1950's) yacht (~£8k) in need of minor maintenance (+£2k) to use for a few years and then considering building something later on?

    You might perhaps start even smaller and less expensive, to see if cruising inshore or offshore is your preference.

    FF
     
  3. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    I have seen many 30 footer with engines, sails, and mast... Complete ready to go in need of cosmetics for under $6000. The replacement cost of sails alone would be this much. The fiberglass to build a boat of type is at least double that. A used boat is steal-then spend money fixing what needs to be fixed.
    And let's face it. Chris Craft or whoever typical make a better boat than we do. And you save 2 years out of project that you could be sailing.

    I have nothing against building boats... But it is a lot harder and costlier than most people realize. And that was an understatement.
     
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  4. fcfc
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    fcfc Senior Member

    I suggest you read some more up to date book.

    A hundred year ago, I suppose it was easy for anyone in UK to build a horse cart, and go anowhere for free. Now you pay toll to drive, you pay to park your car. You have a choice of tickets, wheel clamping or tow away. Not speaking of driving licence or technical regulations your car must meet.

    In boating, it is the same. Except faster. I do not think there is anymore a free harbour or marina in the whole europe. The latest fashion in mediterrane is now to prohibit free anchoring, mandating the use of paying mooring buoys.
    RCD Recreational Craft Directive is there. (Mandatory technical regulations for boats).

    Even tourism in remote location is seen as an industry to make money.
    http://64.70.221.24/DiscBoard/viewtopic.php?t=3453
     
  5. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    You are wrong to think you can build something cheap,--it does'nt work. Ive done it twice both have blown the budget through the roof.

    Its best to buy cheap. Look around Patiently and even consider looking in the East,-- Singapore Thailand etc. They can be sold off for many reasons. I have seen some cheap boats here.---bid em in the balls, then sit and wait--

    Forget the Med its too expensive its over!!

    The East is still cheap and you can anchor anywhere. You can even put down your own mooring --providing you give it some thought and are not placing it in front of the ferry terminal.
     
  6. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    Hey, Frosty how safe is cruising in Thailand with pirates, government and such...

    In south florida the cost of dockage is more per month than what I used to buy boats for. Im paying $1000 a month and not complaining because when I leave this place it is like $2500 in a nice place. Mooring in Bay costs $500 a month, unless you move around every couple of days and hope you dont anchor somewhere you get fined.

    A friend of mine anchored on a reef without knowing and had to pay $50,000 to rebuild reef damage.

    Dockage is problem here, boats are relatively cheap, people are getting ride of them.
     
  7. Gilbert
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    Gilbert Senior Member

    Hello again Matt,
    Your thread has taken right off! There is a lot of interesting stuff here.
    I had no intention of talking you out of building a boat, but I think it's important to know your options so you can best choose your course of action. My time for building estimates were based on the fact that I have built boats of those sizes. So they were not just wild guesses.
    What sort of design might you be able to pull off on your budget? Well, pethaps a Folkboat. But you might have to do a lot of shopping for bargains for materials and such.
    You have to take reports of how much someone spent building such and such a boat with a grain of salt. I remember reading about a fellow who claimed it only cost him $3.98 to heat his house for a winter. There was the $3.30 for gas for his chain saw. And the $.68 for matches to light the fires. Still any information along those lines can be helpful.
    You might find a great bargain in a used sailboat. It is worth looking into.
    Claude Worth's book is called "Yacht Cruising". It is a famous classic and you ought to check it out at your local library.
     
  8. donncha
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    donncha Junior Member

    George Buehler does have some really good money saving schemes and I like his style, but one of the things you must remember is that he wrote that book 17 years ago and even then it was very old fashioned. His plans are great and I would say cheaper to build then any around, but you would be much better off buying an older boat with work to be done then building on the cheap. You could buy a much better boat for 8000 quid then you could build definitely. If you were talking about spending 50,000 and looking for an offshore cruiser to suit your needs then I would consider building. You would be much better off learning to sail properly and then building.

    You could easily pick up a nice wooden 35 footer or even a smaller fiberglass cruiser for 8000. But take your time and buy wisely.
     
  9. yacht371
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    yacht371 Yacht Designer

    Costs will be in general proportional to displacement. Production boats cost $10 to $20 US per pound these days. $5 a pound is a reasonable cost to build a good quality home build. But you will find plenty of excellent used boats at less than $5 a pound. It is unlikely you can build a better boat your self than you get by buying a good used one. Buy one that is cosmetically shabby and fix her up for the best cost.

    Realistically, home building, the cheapest would be steel, with most deck hardware fabricated and welded on. But, you still need interior fitout, motor and sails. And a good paint job, an absolute necessity on a steel boat, is very time consuming and expensive.
     
  10. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "In south fForida the cost of dockage is more per month than what I used to buy boats for. Im paying $1000 a month and not complaining because when I leave this place it is like $2500 in a nice place."{

    You are probably using a "live aboard" marina , which are getting scarcer, due to condo box construction.

    We are in a Hurricane Hole , most live aboards here pay under $500 month and dead boat STORAGE VARIES FROM $150 TO $200 A MONTH. SHORT HIGH season, between Thanksgiving and after New years is highest at $10 per day.

    Move!

    FF
     
  11. mattnedgus
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    mattnedgus Junior Member

    whipping :-D

    The idea behind the boat is to travel around the world (so I think it'll be mostly offshore FAST FRED) - the boat is really only the tool and I saw building as being potentially a cheaper option, but that is looking less and less likely.

    I think I will consider buying and maybe bringing an older boat back up to scratch. The comments of expensive mooring fee's is slightly concerning though - I was under the (maybe naive/ignorant) perception that, although I would have to pay, it wouldn't be too expensive to travel?

    Frosty: what kind of costs are we talking for mooring in the med? That was going to be my aim for next summer if I bought a boat over the winter - to spend say 6 weeks there, before embarking on anything bigger.
     
  12. mattnedgus
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    mattnedgus Junior Member

    Ohhh and Gilbert: I really like ideas like chopping down your own wood etc (I mean the self-sustainability of it all and not just for boats but general ways of life).

    The problem is, as seems more apparent every day, those tree's become taxed and the guys cut-down quota/allowance becomes reduced for 'conservation' purposes.

    The world is going stark raving crazy... Every John Dick and Harry is jumping onto the Capitalist bandwagon.

    I only wonder when I will have to pay for the Carbon Dioxide I breathe out because I'm polluting the atmosphere and adding to global warming? Haha it's just crazy :-D
     
  13. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    Dockage


    Depends on size of Boat, mine is 70'. And I dont live onboard. Let me know how much there?
     
  14. hansp77
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    hansp77

    Hey Matt, been following your thread, so here is a little ramble,

    to the extent of my very limited knowledge (which I need to emphasize) it really does seem like you are being overly naive/ignorant/hopefull.
    Not meant as an insult AT ALL (If I didn't have good measures of all three I probably would never have got a boat in the first place:rolleyes:)

    EVERYTHING you do with, and everything you buy for your boat costs a lot of money (aside from a few insignificant things such as going for a sail when nothing goes wrong;)). A LOT OF MONEY!

    I too share your dream of wanting to sail around the world one day, doing it on the cheap... but from what I have managed to learn these last few years- unless you really wanto roll the dice, cheap is very hard to do.

    From the building estimates I have read about, your budget for even the most dinky/uncomfortable round the world-'capable' (20-25 ft-ish:confused:) would seem not enough. Probably not NEAR enough.

    There are so many things to consider- costs that you simply can't or should not avoid.

    I don't know... I would think your options are to hunt around and patiently wait for a affordable project boat (but do not think you can save money by avoiding paying for a quality survey), and try to get one where amateur time/work is the main requirement (rather than materials or professional work)...
    but this is going by the big assumption that you have unlimited time to invest...
    Do you?
    Are you going to be working at the same time that you build/restore?
    (alternatively- if you do have time to burn- why not just do some paid work in whatever is your field, and save up money to buy what you need ready to go- as has been said here, building your own, or even restoring your own, is very rarely cost effective- unless and only sometimes if you value your own MASSIVE investment of time at zero)

    Where are you going to build/restore (have you looked into yard costs, or transport cost)?
    Have you considered the tools you are going to need?
    What skills do you have- and who is going to help you where they are either lacking, or more hands are needed?
    and many many more considerations...

    There are of course many 'free boats' available to you, such as from this foundation,
    though of course you should be well aware- it is pretty much given around here as a law of nature that there is no such thing as a 'free boat' (indeed they are often the most expensive).

    You may be able to pick up a free or very cheap boat (though of course not from the WBRF as you are required to restore them) in order to strip usefull parts off a dead hull- mast?, engine, deck hardware, tech stuff, anything else you can extract, etc...
    and then try to fit these into a budget hull you either build, or a half finished project you buy...
    but then you have to make sure that everything is actaully properly suited to the specs of you design, and you don't end up with some dodgey/dangerous/useless frankenboat.

    From the best opinions I have read, a fully kitted out ready to go (maybe run-down/dirty etc) boat had at a good price is remarkably good value compared to building or rebuilding your own. There are just so many little things that you need- every little bolt, lifevest, fender, sail, EPIRB, life raft, tender, auxillery power, etc, etc- that will come with a ready to go- or 'just went around and needs a bit of work' that adds up to a LOT of value.

    But, thats enough from me,

    Before I started this ramble (which is actually why I started), I remembered an old thread here (that never really got much attention unfortunately- and I only just managed to find) showing a very do-able (if somewhat unproven) budget hull building method (that could IMHO be suited to building your hull for your bunch of salvaged cheap/free parts from another boat). You might be interested to read about it.
    Here is the thread
    and here is the guys site http://www.bourneboats.com.au/.

    Best advice I would say, is save up and get more money. A lot more money. No matter which way you go, you are going to need it, or wish you had it.

    Best luck, Let us know what happens.
    Hans.
     

  15. fcfc
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    fcfc Senior Member

    A real story of low budget round the world sailing ( seen in french forums).

    A guy bougth a used alu 28 footer. He tried to prepare the boat the best he could with his available money. He even successfully started his travel.

    He just hit a storm in the gulf of biscay a few days after his departure. The storm just torn the mainsail and put some water in the bilge, that he could not start engine. He managed to get to nearby spanish harbour. He requested a tow to enter the harbour.

    And then he just faced catastrophical problems : A towing bill, daily harbour bill, unexpected cost of living, a mainsail too worn to be repared to pursue atlantic crossing. All above his remaining budget. all this was not planned.

    He tried for one week to do what he could in a foreign country, knowing nobody in that spanish harbour. And then resigned to the only possible way : to sell his boat very quickly (he sold it in fifteen days) and went back in france by train.

    Total of his story : he lost half of his wealth for sailing 4 days.
    This story did not make best selling book, did not even make headlines (no capsize, no sinking, not even broken mast, no one drown, no one injured).

    So I just guess sailing around the world with very low money is just like buying a lotto ticket. The one who wins is known and sell book on how to buy a winning ticket. You just do not hear the millions who have lost money buying loosing tickets.
     
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