Copper naphthenate

Why not simply use sodium octoborate? solvent water. Very low toxicity for humans and pets. Very effective for fungus and wood eaters.

 

I have used Timbor which is 'Disodium Octaborate Tetrahydrate' I guess that's the same? That's the stuff I want to mix with anti freeze to make it more effective.

I've treated wood shelves with it and the borers have came back, but maybe it takes a while to kill them, as in they leave a little pile of sawdust, but maybe a week later they die.

 

My father would use it to control ticks and fleas brought into the house by dogs. Low toxicity to humans. Worked well. I dont know how persistent it is.

http://www.co.thurston.wa.us/health... actives/Disodium octaborate tetrahydrate.pdf

 

Sam;The accidents most often occur when anti freeze leaks onto the driveway or garage floor. It will stay puddled for a while I suppose. That gives fido an opportunity to ingest some of the tasty sweet stuff. I do not know how much it would take to be serious or if it is still dangerously toxic after it dries.

Maybe we should both check google, wiki, or a vet advisory site to get more information. I Have two dogs, and I'm very fond of both of them. I'm a little sensitive about such stuff I guess.

Here in central Florida, it is bug heaven. Spiders, roaches, and all sorts of other creepy crawly things. I have a whole battalion of lizards who live in my yard, on the porches. Sometimes they venture indoors, with conditional permission of course. We do not bother them because they thrive on bugs. Result; we have very few bugs to contend with. Thanks in large part to the little lizard friends.

Termites are a whole different deal. It'll take some real serious work, money and gnashing of teeth to get rid of them. The CN might be worth worth a try. On the other hand, maybe the invention of home brewed chemicals is fraught with risk. That might fall into the same general category as our well meaning newbies who attemp to design their own boats.

I suspect that you might be able to get some good advice from one of the landscape chemical supply houses. They are the ones who supply commercial, industrial, and golf course grounds keepers. The one in my area is apparently an affiliate of John Deere.

I think that the Aussies are in position to tell the most horrifying tales about termites. The termites in Oz are said to have carbide tipped teeth.

 

I checked out the EPA and looks like coppper naphtanate is approved:
http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/naphthenate-salts-red.pdf

 

As far as toxicity, I was going to say that it's standard practice for beekeepers to dip their bee boxes in copper naphthenate. One treatment lasts for years. Apparently even the smelly, fuel oil based stuff is used and makes no difference to the bees or the honey. I'm not sure what to think about that.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?236659-Copper-Naphthenate

 

That's a good, understandable chart. I think the borates used to (maybe they still do) come in a can like Ajax Cleanser and you could just sprinkle it along the bottom of the walls and in in cupboards and stuff. Everything used to be simple. Probably dangerous, but simple anyways.

 

I don't mind lizards in the house, but the mutt kills them so if one gets in we have to chase it down and catch it to put it back outside. It is very hard to catch lizards running around in the house.

The dog is pretty good at killing those Palmetto bugs, she paws them to death without making a mess. Those things don't have any bones or organs or brains, they're just a few ounces of off white goo.

Termites seem to be no problem. If you cut off their route to the ground they're out of business. The borer beetles, I don't know. They're insidious.

Heat fumigation I could do myself and then keep them down with borates. I've thought about using what graineries use to fumigate grain, that doesn't take much licensing or certification, maybe even none if they don't bother to ask for proof.

 

Sodium octoborate (expensively sold under the name Timbor, very cheap when bought as Foliarel for strawberries...it's the same thing) is a pure mineral like table salt, so no evaporation no transformation. Life more than 50 years on the wood if it stays out of water. And the best absolutely no smell, nor stains.
My house is made in cheap Chiapas pine, an alike Ponderosa pine, from the roof to the floors, in a tropical humid climate with 5 species of termites in the garden, 2 of carpenter ants, and a lot of wood eater bugs. Without treatment this pine would last 3 years at best, less than six months if in contact with the soil.

After 12 years nothing, absolutely nothing...no rot, no bugs, no termites, no fleas nor ticks (I have 5 cats and 2 dogs). The termites have tried to enter by the floors, no match. They taste the wood and go away.

Simple treatment of octoborate at 57 grams of salt per m2, and an soya oil treatment outside with zinc naphtenate and paraffin as water repellent for sealing the wood. Inside the wood is bare.
Simply done with two to three aspersions with a solution of 220 grams of octo per liter, depending of the absorbing rate of the wood. Besides it's a fire retardant.

Because it's a mineral, no fumes, no particles and as nobody licks the wood, no toxicity for mammals or even lizards (I have geckos in the house). At my knowledge it's the safest treatment as it does not use any hydrocarbon solvent, nor evaporating chemical. Great advantage, it works on green wood as it's hydrophilic.

Used since 100 years in Australia, and more than 75 years on wooden boats (the US Navy made a formula of borax and boric acid in 1940 for the mine sweepers, the octoborate gives beter results). At 57 gr/m2 it repels even the Formosan termites. In a house no need of mono ethylene glycol, except for treating rot and fungus.

A good trick to repel the termites from the house is to make a trench at least 30 cm wide and 45 cm deep around the house, and fill it with gravel and coarse table salt. Every year put one 1kg of salt per lineal meter. Most termites hate salt which is toxic for them. Another trick is to poison the termites with cardboard impregnated with a solution of 2% of octobarate and water. Put the pieces of cardboard well wet under bricks or stones around the house and survey the affair. Termites love cardboard, will eat it as the solution is not strong enough to repel, and give back to the queen, larvae and others. But the octoborarate will kill the gut bacteria that termites need to break the cellulose, so the colony will die of starvation, unable to digest the wood. That works nicely, as I have seen many times.

 

Foliarel must be a foreign brand name, I can't find it here. This is what I get - 25# for $80, which seems pretty cheap


1.5# per gallon makes a 15% solution which which will cover up to 200 sq ft, so the whole 25# covers about 3,000 sq ft.

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/timbor-p-144.html?sub_id=663

The cardboard idea sounds good. In the shop the cockroach/palmetto bugs love it. It's just disgusting to open a box and have them run out leaving all their little turds piled up on everything.

I've never heard of 'zinc' naphtenate, only copper. I will look that up.

Another question is whether 'copper' (or maybe zinc) naphthenate will react with and corrode galvanized tin if I spray the inside wood of a tin shedand over spray gets on it?

 

Foliarel is an Italian brand of boron foliar fertilizer for strawberries, beets, tomatoes and so on. It's 99.98% pure octaborate like the Timber but in Mexico it costs 5 times (yes: five) less than the Timbor for exactly the same chemical salt...Unhappily it's in 25 kg bags so it's for big projects.

The cardboard bait poison doesn't sound good, it's good! works pretty well. I haven't tried the version with simple salt table but it seems that works also. The purpose was to eliminate the termites nest too close to the house and it did it. From time to time I renew the baits to keep these insects at large.

I do not know about a reaction of copper naphtenate with tin. Probably you're calling galvanized steel tin (as in tin roof) and in this case the copper will destroy soon or late the galvanized sheet. Octaborate doesn't corrode galvanized.

Zinc naphtenate is a drier for oil paints and has similar properties as the copper but it does not corrode the metals...the useful concentration is 2 % of zinc metal, so you will dilute 4 to 8 times depending on the concentration of the naphtenate (8 or 16% of zinc metal) you'll find. But it's very smelly...
If you want absolutely copper without smell try the Dicopper chloride trihydroxide in suspension in water. That smells nothing but stains every thing in green and corrodes all ferrous metals plus zinc, aluminum etc. Excellent anti fungus.

I would stay simply with octaborate and do not use any solvent based product specially inside...