CONFUCIUS -- 17 foot off-shore cabin sloop cruiser

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by kvsgkvng, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. kvsgkvng
    Joined: Jan 2012
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    kvsgkvng Senior Member

    I always read carefully your posts and weigh them for their value. So far my observations end up with posts being sarcastic without any hint for any improvement or hope. Please, I beg your pardon for my blunt statement. Perhaps, I just didn't find what I was looking for. ( And I do read nautical architecture design textbooks with their number is growing, the last one was Ted Brewer's "Understanding Boat Design" - kinda simple, but nice. )

    After your post I was playing around with a model of a similar heavy displacement boat, 17'LOAx6'BM tried to reduce draft a little keeping same displacement of 2T. It worked fine until the moment this boat heeled for about 20 degrees. After that the floating shell practically didn't have any rudder. Albeit, there was a small tail, but it wasn't adequate to control the boat in turbulent waters. If we add to this situation some choppy water when the rudder is out of water completely sometimes, then I start to appreciate this 3'-3" draft. In addition the deep draft should add significantly to better stability in troubled situations.

    This is the reason all modern small and medium competition yachts have double rudders. One reason is to have it in the water in the first place and the second reason is to reduce wet surface while still retaining control of the boat.

    What I also learned that deep V hulls don't change balancing as much as shallow hulls with fin keels and as the boat heels it stays more or less constant or even improves the balance layout. I hate to see modern sailboat pitching forward. It looks like a disease to me. It looks like a dreaded horse pulling a plow in the seas. Again, this is my personal aesthetic opinion...

    I agree that modern hull shapes can develop better speed. But in a situation with 5m (±16ft) waves I wouldn't choose thin light shell with heavy ballast five feet down.

    Additional benefit of a deep V-hull in my opinion is extra volume for storage, living space and headroom. It is important for me on long journeys as well.

    So with this in mind, I upload some materials, as I promised in the first post of this thread. I don't expect to elaborate any more for the "CONFUCIUS" design. In my mind this hull form could be developed in modern off-shore mini-cruiser with adequate parameters with safety being the one of most importance. After all, what is the fast boat for if it sinks or goes turtle in the middle of the ocean?

    Whatever I might say, the numbers speak for themselves and I am just an apprentice... Thank you all for your help and opinion.

    Attached Files:

  2. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    On that length, a scow type may be of advantage. Have you thought about it?
  3. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    Higher sides gets my vote.

    The sitting on deck with a surrounding coming model can work well with GRP, if the comings are molded into the deck piece. The coming adds a wonderful box beam to the structure.

    With higher sides, the deck is simply too high for the people on it to have any effect as movable ballast. As the boat heels the CG of the people quickly crosses the HCB of the boat, or comes damned close to it.
  4. kvsgkvng
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    kvsgkvng Senior Member

    This is my next step in working with the original Confucius hull. Here I tried to approach the Flicka 20 category. It is 21' LOA x 9'B x 3'D heavy displacement (3.5T) hull which probalby would do just fine up to and including speed 5 kt with proper sails area and 35~40% ballast. Regarding the sail area -- I didn't do any finalization and would start with something around 250~280 sq.ft.

    Since I am not going to build one, this exercise ends here, even though I would want very much to see this thing next to Flicka 20 in real life made out of foam/fiberglass/epoxy sandwich with a free standing carbon fiber mast.

    Well... in my next lifetime, moving on to something new and more manageable.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012

  5. TeakLadyMeiLing
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    TeakLadyMeiLing New Member

    Teak Lady Offshore Sloop

    Great to see drawings of "Confucius", the Ah King Slipway built "Teak Lady Offshore Sloop" designed by Thomas "Ted" Kilkenny in the mid '30s for the waters of San Francisco Bay. The 1937 World's Fair on Treasure Island, San Francisco displayed a Teak Lady (I believe hull#3) and several orders of the stout little yacht were taken. By 1940, the Teak Lady became an official San Francisco Bay racing class and proved themselves to keep up with larger classes such as the Nunes Bros. 23' Bear Boat and 20' Mermaid sloop. Her lofty rig moved her heavy displacement hull easily, but she really would shine in a heavy blow. For 12 years I sailed my Teak Lady (launched Feb. 1958) on San Francisco and San Pablo Bays in everything from light zephyrs to 50 knot gales. Built like a bank vault, but in every condition, sailed like an angel's wing with a feather-light helm. Thanks for the memories and the article of the Borden's Pacific cruise on "Confucius".
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