Concept of an unmanned battery-powered coaster - REALLY?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by 1J1, Sep 17, 2014.

  1. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Can you find me a link to this info ?
     
  2. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    What kind of economic models are an alternative to Capitalism?

    If there is any whiff of Socialism, all the binary thinkers will have a cow. Some can hardly admit we should have a "social contract".
     
  3. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    Anyway, in the OP, the battery powered ship has a range of 100nm or about 115 regular miles. That seems to limit it to inter island shipping of third world stuff. Any adverse currents would cut that distance in half or more. Then it would seem you'd need a pretty substantial power supply to recharge the thing. Who would be around to do any repairs on such a specialized ship?
     
  4. 1J1
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    1J1 Senior Member

    I'd imagine such ships to have on board some wind generators to charge batteries at sea if necessary.
     
  5. AndySGray
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    AndySGray Senior Member

    It is from a US friend who spends much of his time in Cuba and also here in Cayman - US citizens are not permitted to fly direct to Cuba (unless they have cuban relatives - one flight daily from miami for them) and many simply fly to Cayman and then it is a quick hop with Cayman air flying several times a day. The sister islands, Little Cayman and Cayman Brac, are actually closer to Cuba than they are to Grand Cayman. Cuban migrants can recieve help from Cayman but there is a legal advantage to setting foot on US soil first so most boats continue their journey if seaworthy.

    :idea: These are the guys who can't get brake fluid so 'caramelise' brown sugar by heating in rum and make their own - there are many varieties and some add soap to help lubricate the seals - the boiling point is not that far below commercial brands and it is much less toxic. ;)
     
  6. sharpii2
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    A very good question.

    I don't think Capitalism is the real villain here.

    I think the type of Capitalism, which I call "Market Force Determinism", is.

    Just like any decent ball game or even regatta, Capitalism needs rules and even more important, hard fast limitations.

    Our present model assumes no such limitations are needed and "the market" will sort all these things itself, to everyone's benefit. The market is assumed to be self correcting.

    Personally, having lived under the heel of this supposed self correcting market, I believe different. I believe this so called self correcting market is routinely manipulated by any and all who can find an opportunity to do so.

    Pure competition is the road to economic ruin. Just ask any unskilled laborer. Maybe that's why affluent people routinely vote to defund education (hey. I want my kid to go to college, especially if my neighbor's kid can't)

    The way to prosper is to find some unfair advantage and to exploit it to the nth degree. Unions do this by using the blackmail of the strike threat. CEO's do this by buying politicians by pumping huge amounts of money into campaign war chests.

    This could explain why two of the richest men in America have turned a major political party into a family subsidiary.

    Just like limiting the Water Line Length in sailboat classes, was the first step in regulating sailboat races, limiting how much someone can make in a single year, before being slammed with monster top marginal taxes, is probably the first hard limit that needs to be set to make capitalism anything near being fair. It should be a multiple of the minimum wage, not a set dollar amount.

    Having the Federal Reserve discount rate adjusted on a sliding scale, so that "too big to fail" banks pay a higher rate than smaller ones, might go a long way too.

    Bringing back "Death Taxes" for the obscenely rich would go a long way toward bring us back from the brink of entering a new feudal age, where just about every industry is owned or controlled by an established family.

    I do believe we need markets and free enterprise, but I refuse to believe such are inherently self regulating, or inherently serve the best interests of all involved. Left to themselves, they almost invariably serve just the handful on top and maybe an ever shrinking middle class.

    We need to wise up, before the merely imperfect gets replaced with the absolutely terrible.
     
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  7. kerosene
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    kerosene Senior Member

    thinking that one format alone is the answer is the problem. We talk about free market and capitalism yet its utter nonsense.
    I will give you examples where private systems work really bad.

    Prison. police. to extent health care. Prison is the worst - the commercial interest of a prison is to get the people back as soon as possible for as long time as possible. The system has zero interest in helping the people serving to be able to become productive members of society. When CA was voting about legalizing weed the biggest lobbyist against the law change was prison guards' union. is that not a bit messed up?

    On the other hand things that are considered capitalistic or free market are all but free. When Fed is buying treasuries over and over again to flood the place with currency its all but free market. Free market would have all interest rates float and nobody could manipulate the way its happening now. 2008 crash is often considered the problem when truth is that the problem was not the crisis but the years leading to it. 2000 dotcom deserved a crash but to postpone the problem interests were kept low, same after 911.

    The whole socialist / capitalist divide is silly. Its certain that we need certain regulation to protect certain values and even to direct consumer behavior at the same time we shouldn't flood every field in an ocean of bureaucracy or create systems that discourage hard work or trying being a productive member of the society.

    anyway back to topic. this ship is product of imagination - the laws (physics, economical or legal) are not ready for it.
     
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  8. kerosene
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    kerosene Senior Member

    note about free market

    I might go for an MRI soon. Here I can go to a local MRI place an just ask for one and pay out of pocket (no public subsidies here) 380-500 euros. and if I get a paper from specialist doctor that I need one I end up paying 290 euros, gov paying the difference. Or I can go through totally public system where everything takes a bit longer but works still great. Cost this way for me probably under 100 euros.

    Consider that the price tag of the fully market priced is about $700 (including 24% VAT I believe)


    meanwhile in US

    http://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/health/2014/05/09/how-much-does-an-mri-cost/
     
  9. AndySGray
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    AndySGray Senior Member

    Similarly,
    How much does an artificial hip cost?

    A company who makes them was recently interviewed and as they come off the production line, they are assigned to a customer - a US customer is charged 90,000 dollars whereas the same item could go to a european hospital or to the UK - in which case they would be charged 3,000 for an identical unit.

    The difference is the UK health service has agreed to buy e.g. 8,000 hips, (it's not difficult to work out the age of the population and do a statistical projection), to get wholesale prices.

    The US orders them one at a time and pays retail, even though the orders for the US in total exceed 4 or 5 european countries put together.

    So why would a US insurance company pay 30 times over the 'best price' and in theory blow 87,000 which could go to shareholders ?

    It's not in their interest for healthcare to become affordable -

    If everyone 'knows' that a hip replacement costs a quarter million.
    Joe public 'knows' he can't afford to pay THAT.
    Joe public goes out and spends as much as he can on the 'Best' insurance he can afford...
    :(

    If you found that you COULD get a new hip for 30,000 all-in, might you be tempted to save the premium and pay medical bills as needed?
    :?:
     
  10. sharpii2
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    I think the limited range of this proposed vessel, along with its slow operating speed range and lack of crew, are a sure recipe for trouble. It's usual route would probably have to be half its range, to be reasonably safe. This knocks its useful range down to about 50 nm.

    And what happens if it plows into another ship or boat, when its nav system goes on the blink?

    As for regulating capitalism.

    I think hard fast rules are more effective than edicts made by appointed bureaucrats. Rules stay rules, until repealed by a democratic vote. Bureaucrats tend to change with the political seasons and are often looking to eventually get jobs in the industries they are supposed to regulate.
     
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  11. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    What's to stop pirates from just towing it away?
     
  12. AndySGray
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    AndySGray Senior Member

    Or more likely a Hacker, redirecting to an alternative port to unload...
     
  13. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    Or with it's slow speed/low power and very limited range, it gets blown offshore where the batteries die.

    If it isn't declared outright abandoned salvage then, the least that would be required is an expensive rescue tow. Or it drifts onto the rocks or something.
     
  14. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    Wouldn't all of the negatives above apply to at least a similar extent for conventional manned boat of the same speed and range?

    Pirate towing already happens with manned boats after injuring the crew. So if there is no crew, with a totally enclosed smooth design there would be no attachment points until opened for loading/delivery. Active drone type monitoring by ONE operator could remotely engage passive or even active repulsion upon attack (gas, sonic defense, surface electrification, active weaponry, scramble military air defense, etc.)

    Blown offshore or on rocks? Longer cat designs would improve drag losses and increase speed/range. Active drone monitoring could lower anchors or drogue chutes to cut power usage while recharging w/ solar or wind. Rescues?, hmm, our capitalistic system recently used the coast guard to rescue sick children from a yacht at zero cost to the irresponsible parents ;-)

    Nav system on the blink- that already happens with regular boats, some survive and some don't,- cruise ships etc. DUI's with crewed boats like Exxon Valdez, etc.

    Sorry JMHO.

    PC
     

  15. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    It can also be remotely monitored. Without hostages, taking the hypothetical pirates down would be much simpler.
     
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