Commercial fishing trimaran?

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by pir8ped, Jun 7, 2008.

  1. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    This is currently the most active thread on the forum, so I am putting these reports here.

    But also it is slightly relevant as some question the seaworthiness of sailing multihulls and say sailing monohulls are safer.

    I replied to that earlier by saying,

    "As I say on my website, these days you are far more likely to hear of a monohull losing its keel than of a cruising catamaran capsizing. And the monohulls don't seem to be just one off racing boats. Look at Hooligan and the Bavarias. People tend to die on boats that sink, they don't do so so often on boats that stay afloat."

    and got some stick as a result

    Anyway, these reports both came from todays Sailing Anarchy

    "TWO men who built the racing yacht Excalibur will face trial for manslaughter over the deaths of four crew who perished when the $1 million vessel capsized.
    Alex Cittadini and Adrian Presland were each charged with four counts of manslaughter after a 2005 inquest into the deaths recommended charges.
    The Excalibur's crew was sailing back to Sydney from Hamilton Island in 2002 when the keel split in rough seas off Seal Rocks on the mid-north coast.
    The yacht sank in seconds.

    AND

    Tragedy struck the Texas A&M Galveston Offshore Sailing Team as one sailor died and five were rescued after the Cape Fear 38 Cynthia Woods they were sailing in the Regata de Amigos. Apparently lost it's keel and the boat capsized. Safety officer Roger Stone's body has been recovered and the Coast Guard said divers found the body in the capsized boat 27 miles southeast of Freeport. We're always horrified by these types of stories and this one is tragic. We'll be looking to see what caused the keel failure."


    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  2. pir8ped
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    pir8ped Junior Member

    charmc: Apart from great big trawlers with their own refrigeration, fishing is always a part-time occupation, more or less, due to availability of fish, and the weather. Most times of the year, there is something to catch around here, but February-April is a bit slack. At those times, you don't want to burn fuel chasing fish that might or might not be available. A sail-boat might actually have the advantage there.

    I do not expect any of my customers to come to me exclusively, but I think they will come when I have fish available, because they will have been kept of ice immediately after being caught, they won't be kept long, they will go directly from the boat to the restaurant, and people like the idea of fishing from a sail boat. I have a website planned so that from the boat, I can upload the details of my catch, and customers who are registered will get a text message or email telling them what is available. They can order right off the website, and have the fish delivered that day ( the big cockpit of a cat would be very handy for final packing of the catch ). This may seem a bit hi-tech and optimistic, but I have just found that the resaurants are approaching the same idea from their end: http://www.pisces-rfr.org/UK/Home.html Notice one of the people involved here is based in Totnes ( my town ), and several restaurants have signed up to use 'sustainable' fish. Income should be increased by this direct sales, so I need fewer fish to make a living.

    I really don't think the part-time aspect of the enterprise should be that off-putting. I know many people who have several occupations. Anyway, if fuel costs do keep rising, the option of running big diesel boats may not be feasible.

    (You posted as I write this - thanks for the links. I will check them out properly this evening. )

    Construction. Frankly, I don't need a heavier construction. I don't need to be in a place where trawlers are unloading, so I don't have to share their dock. You couldn't put a sailboat there, unless it was steel maybe, but then you don't have to. Why else might I need heavier construction? I am thinking I might be able to lighten a design, since I won't need so many bunks or big water tanks.

    rayaldridge: Half of the trip out to the fishing grounds is without a load, except ice. For one ton of fish, you'd need about 1/3 ton of ice. So going out, it isn't really a heavy load. Coming back, the load may be a ton - if you time it right, much of the ice will have about melted and the water gone overboard.

    Charter fishing - that could work, except that you need to go out whether there is wind or not, and whatever direction it is coming from, so you would be dependent on the engine, and the sails would be something extra. There is a big motor cat here. Here takes fishermen out to the same wrecks I intend to target. The fishermen go free, and get to keep just one fish! I don't think they have too much trouble finding such crew ( I will be one of them in the next week or two! ) but fuel costs are certainly hurting them, with 2 x 125 hp outboards on the back.
     
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  3. charmc
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    charmc Senior Member

    Richard,

    No question that sailing multis have a good record of becoming stable after inverting. One can debate whether a mono or multi is more prone to capsize under certain conditions forever (and many do precisely that :D), but there seems to be little question that a multi, once capsized, will at least become somewhat stable and can serve as a survival shelter of sorts.

    The two tragedies you mention, however, have more to do, IMO, with pushing design and construction limits than with the virtues of monos vs multis. Yes, monos have heavy keels, but keels falling off happens mainly to cutting edge racers. There have been countless monohull keel boats sailing the world without mishap. The arguments over capsize performance of monos vs multis usually, at least the ones I've read, center on the fact that monos will capsize more easily in certain conditions, but will recover, whereas multis are harder to roll but don't recover at all, although they usually become stable while inverted.

    I'd suggest that argument is very relevant to this discussion. Rolling motion seems to be a matter of personal tolerance, some folks handle mono rolling but get upset on a cat, and vice versa. John has expressed his preference, but now I'm curious about any design changes necessary for commercial fishing, even the "boutique fishing" John has described. (Boutique is used here because John has described fishing for low volume, high value catches and selling to a limited clientel willing to pay premium prices.)
     
  4. rayaldridge
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    rayaldridge Senior Member

    The same is true of any fishing venture. If the winds are calm and the fish are getting old in the holds, you'll have to use your engine.

    Where I live, that wouldn't be a frequent problem, as there are very few calm days. Perhaps part of the design problem for sail-assisted fishing vessels is picking places where the winds are reliable. In areas where winds are not reliable, it might not be feasible.

    One of the best situations for sailing charter boats would be overnight or several-day trips. For example, along the MS coast, there are or were several companies that would take fishermen out to the Chandeleurs in big boats. Once there, the fishermen disperse in kayaks or outboard skiffs, fish all day, and return to the mother ship for dinner and sleep. A big cat might be ideal for that sort of charter work.
     
  5. rayaldridge
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    rayaldridge Senior Member

    This strikes me as an incomplete statement. It's true as far as it goes, but doesn't include the important information that among those who have experienced both, those who continue to prefer the motion of monohulls are a tiny fraction of those who prefer the motion of a cat. Even those who strongly prefer monos to multis would rarely list "motion" as a monohull advantage, if they are fair-minded.

    I've been offshore in both kinds of boats, and I truly can't understand why anyone would honestly prefer the motion of a monohull. Such folks do exist, but in my experience, they are very rare.
     
  6. billgow
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    billgow Junior Member

    Yup, I have.

    I know this isn't exactly on topic but it's close.

    A huge problem that’s not going to go away easily is the end of the day weigh-in for boats that fish tournaments. Unless there is a way to eliminate this circus, sailing sportfishers will never become competitive.

    I’ve seen Brian’s design and it’s great – except it’s too big for me. I’d like to stay in the 40’ to 45’ range.

    My primary reason for being on the water is fishing and entertaining. I started racing sailboats when I was 9 years old but never made the connection – until I looked closely at the Leopard and Voyager catamarans. They’re darn close to perfect. They have a short rear deck that could easily be converted into a fighting area. The traveler is overhead and out of the way. The backstays are foreword of the fight area, twin screw…. I figure, a good crew could actually troll for billfish under sail and dump the sails when the fight is on. You’d need to bump up your equipment. I’m planning to do my fishing the Sea of Cortez so if I was trolling, instead of using 30Lb gear, I might go up to 40 or 50 and be sure I had plenty of line to work with.

    BTW – for me the argument about mono and twin hulls is silly. I had it out about small center consoles and big sportfishers years ago. The big guys claim they can handle nastier weather better but guess what? If it’s too nasty for a 24’ center console those guys stay home too! About the only thing they can do that a small CC can’t is serve a full course meal and put you to bed. Let’s be honest, if the weather offshore is miserable, we’re going to play golf.

    Thanks for taking the time to read my rant and I’d love to get people’s thoughts about a sailing sportfisher. I’m no environmentalist and don’t believe for a second in global warming but I hate buying fuel from terrorists. I have no doubt that a first class sailing sportfisher with two hulls would be a huge hit. Maybe I can get IGFA to think about the mad race to the weigh-in so the sailors can play too.
     
  7. charmc
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    charmc Senior Member

    Good point, billgow.

    IMO those fishing tournaments with the mad dashes out and in are dumb. Trophy fishing, with the fish being killed soley for the chance to lord it over other guys/gals, high fiveing and yelling "Mine's bigger", is not only dumb but sadistic and wasteful.

    I'm not against sportfishing, just those wasteful old-fashioned tournaments. Your ideas for a fishing cat sound pretty cool.
     
  8. billgow
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    billgow Junior Member

    Fortunately, those days are coming to an end. There are still too many billfish being killed in Mexico but there’s great pressure from fishermen north of the boarder to release all billfish unharmed. No one needs to kill these fish to win tournaments anymore. Boats have trained judges onboard who keep score so this practice can be eliminated. I think the next step is eliminating any need to return at a specified time to allow sailors to participate.

    Regardless of tournaments, I intend to fish from a mid-sized cat. I’m really looking forward to this!
     
  9. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    There used to be a sportfishing sailing catamaran built in Chile. Design was by Lavranos I think. Maybe it is still being built.

    The reason there are no US style sports fishermen in Europe is not so much the lack of fish. More the price of fuel, which is currently about USD9 a gallon. Fuel in the USA is still VERY cheap!!

    Rather than blame terrorists for high US fuel prices consider this:

    The price of fuel in the UK has risen 40% in 10 years. In the USA 400%.

    Why is that? when oil is, roughly, priced the same worldwide.

    Either the USA government used to subsidise fuel. Or fuel taxes have risen sharply in the US and no one has noticed. Or the oil companies are now making bigger profits. Or?

    It is all driven by speculation anyway, I believe there is now more "paper oil" than oil in the ground.

    So where do the speculators live?? Tehran or New York???

    Just a bit of political fun to be flamed over

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  10. billgow
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    billgow Junior Member

    You'll get no flaming from me. US gas is heavily subsidized. We directly subsidize the oil companies and they also get huge tax incentives. But they deserve it because they aren’t making much on this stuff anyway. Check this out:

    [​IMG]

    Before the futures traders, the oil companies are only making 62 cents a gallon. That’s less that 16% gross revenue. From that they have all their costs deducted to arrive at a net revenue figure (that’s probably less than half this). For this 62 cents, they refine this gook, store it and ship it to the place where you buy it.

    The government is making over a dollar!

    The real winner is still the oil producing countries who are taking almost 60% of your money. Next in line is our government.

    Diesel in Mexico is $2.00 a gallon……
     
  11. Nordic Cat
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    Nordic Cat Senior Member

    It was a Crowther design built in Valdivia.

    Found the link: http://www.alwoplast.cl/PastHighlights/BuildersoftheWorldsfirstSailGameFishingCatamarans.htm

    I have designed my boat to have a good fishing platform at the back, by using unstayed masts with short booms, there won't be much to tangle on at the back.

    Instead of outriggers, I will use the topping lifts, as they have nu function other than to be used for this and as spare halyards. With a spacing of more than 6 metres plus as many meters height that you want, this should work well.
    There will be a short trampoline behind the fixed aft deck to give more room to walk on, and a good spot to land/release from.

    Only thing missing is the Tuna tower, but standing on the coachroof will get you at nearly 5 meters (eye height) off the water.

    Regards

    Alan

    Take a look here:
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=22150
     
  12. longliner45
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    sheetwise,no it is not a matter of size,,,,I ,fished a 31 ft jc hull ,,and before further critisim,,,I wish some of you designers would pull up the hull and take a look at it ,and tell me what ya think ,,,,(,jc boat fla)longliner
     
  13. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    I typed in "jc boat fla" and eventually found a photo of a conventional US style hardchine open fishing boat with forward wheelhouse/cuddy. Is that the boat you mean?

    Clearly totally different to a sailing multihull so I'm not sure viewing it was relevant??

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  14. RHough
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    RHough Retro Dude

    Just to be back on topic.

    On a large than boutique scale, would a multi have the cargo carrying ability to compete with say the likes of a Nova Scotia Schooner like Bluenose? I've always been under the impression that if a multi was loaded to 300-400 D/L it would no longer have an advantage over a mono. If that is the case, it would seem that a mono might be more cost effective on a ton/mile basis.
     

  15. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    But a Bluenose couldn't be sailed and fished single handed, could it??

    SIB (which I mentioned in my first post) stands for Small Is Beautiful. The logic was that many small boats would be both more effective at fishing and also more profitable for the owners. Since the smaller boats would be more affordable it was hoped that the fishermen themselves would be the owners.

    Or put it your way, boutiques are better than superstores.

    An aside to billgow. I believe that the UK government takes over half the purchase price of fuel. As that is currently about USD8.5 a gallon it is a nice little earner.

    Do you have a similar cost breakdown for last years fuel price??

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
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