Commercial Fishing Sailboat

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by MickT, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. MickT
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    Location: New Orleans

    MickT Junior Member

    Ever since I began commercial fishing, i've been thinking about getting my own boat someday. The initial cost of start up in almost every fishery makes it a difficult proposition. Working for other people starts to make a lot more sense.
    However, making such an investment into something that can double as something you can take joy in makes a bit more sense.
    This is not a project that will come to fruition in the next 5 years, or probably the next 10. But its looking feasible enough that I want to start planning. I intend to hire a naval architecture student in the next few months to do some initial feasibility things, and hopefully when he gets out of school i'll have enough money to start laying it down.
    The planned fishery for the vessel is tuna/other pelagics longline, troll, and jig machine. Plan is for a motorsailor, something like a Skookum 53, but with better hold capacity and a better layout.
    Hoped for capacity is 40,000 lbs vac packed frozen tuna and 8,000 gallons fuel, which might have to tend down to 30,000 and 6,000. In addition to refrigeration and deck equipment at roughly 10,000 lbs. Anything less is a scrap and start over. Hope is to have modular blast frozen holds over or aside fuel tanks or vice versa for ballast purposes.
    My problem, before I even start figuring, is can a sailing vessel of 60-70' move that kind of weight under sail? Even at 5-6 knots. I started looking at books but none of them seem to cover a sailing vessel moving cargo, and my studying plate is a little too full nowadays (refrigeration and pipe welding) to get a good study of naval architecture in to answer the question myself. Before I approach a designer or would-be designer i'd like to have some sort of workable parameters. Vessel construction will be of steel. There needs to be a pilothouse and an open back deck of at least 6'. It needs to be capable of being sailed by one man. If some of the experts on this forum could at least point my studies in the right direction, I would appreciate it immensly.
    I've looked around this forum for awhile and i've noticed threads have a tendency to get derailed, so let me state a couple of things to help keep it on track
    1. Let me worry about the business end. I've worked in fisheries from San Diego to Kodiak and while im a long way from an old salt, i'm not dewy eyed. Lifestyle is an externality not often considered.
    2. If you have environmental concerns about longlining, please send them to me in a PM and I will consider them, but there is enough information available publicly you dont need to state it in this thread.
    3. If it isnt obvious already, I have no sailing experience :). I'm a chief engineer on a menhaden seiner.
    I look forward to your replies and a good discussion. Thank you for your time.
     
  2. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Certainly must be possible to design an easy to operate , sail and engine combo fishing boat, that is less dependant on fuel. Id imagine that in the near future, the fisherman who can harvest with the lowest overhead, is going to be the one who stays in business. Perhaps in future the licensing authorities will even give a special quota, season, to sail assisted Artisanal fisherman.
    It would be interesting to see a proposed modern sail assisted fishing boat. How they handle the sails and gear in the sky ? How they could handle there fishing gear always on a reach..wind on the beam . Ive never seen a modern one and Im always on the water. Plenty of old stuff to look at... The Grand Banks schooners.
    Oh and do be careful in the longline fishery..as you know they abuse the rules worldwide. They recently hauled one in here, working the " no mans zone", with ten times the allowable longline length. Soon they may make the fisheries unusable for the next generation of fisherman.
     
  3. cthippo
    Joined: Sep 2010
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    Location: Bellingham WA

    cthippo Senior Member

    Hey Mick, Welcome aboard!

    Like Michael said, no reason it can't work, it certainly has in the past. Sounds like by the time you get this in the water you'll be at a point in your life where you're not as interested in going fast anyway.

    let us know how it turns out.
     
  4. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    It would be interesting to see your "Sketch " of a sail assisted fishing boat . the deck layout in particular, how you actually offshore longline . Simple things like ...Is a longliner symmetric ? do you fish both sides of the boat ? I'm sure the actually displacement, power calculations are simply naval architecture...but the actual fishing technique and its needs are something only a fisherman knows.
     
  5. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Mick,

    there is nothing in your concept which could not be finetuned to work for you. The only drawback are your sailing skills.
    A vessel that size is not easy to handle by one man only, bearing in mind, that you are not going out for leisure boating.

    I would recommend to contact our member Guillermo, he is the one here with the right background for you. Being a NA, familiar with fishing vessels and owner of a motorsailer, he would be my choice for such enquiry. Send him a PM.

    Meanwhile you could lookup the George Buehler design "Ellemaid" which seems to be close to your description.
    http://www.georgebuehler.com/

    Is that roughly what you have in mind?

    Regards
    Richard
     
  6. MickT
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    Location: New Orleans

    MickT Junior Member

    I am working on learning google sketchup but im finding it difficult. Basically, a hauling station would be needed on the port bow quarter, preferably a sheltered deck with a ramp to the water. A setting station on the stern, preferably with an aluminum removable shelter. Basically a 4 to 5' opening towards the front of boat and a 6 ft or so back deck no more than 5 ft above the waterline. Vessel wont be fishing under sail power except when trolling. I know there were sealing vessels around this size in the early 1900s, anyone know their design or about how much they carried? I just want to get the impossible/possible so i can direct my time a little better. Aluminum is under consideration for the hull because of weight issues. If anyone knows of a sketch program i can use let me know!
     
  7. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    welcome to the group

    if you were looking for something smaller I'd suggest an old school lobster smack but in the size your looking for I'm drawing a blank except maybe for the oyster sharpies of the Chesapeake bay area, although they wouldn't handle the seas in the area your talking about.

    anyway best of luck and I look forward to see what you come up with

    cheers
    B
     
  8. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    With modern roller furling, sail handling can be fairly easy. Since you will be running hydraulics anyway, they can be all run from a central location. Using sails as auxiliary power and for roll dampening can be a reasonable option. Guillermo Gefael is a good option for design and consulting.
     
  9. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    You might also consider Tad Roberts who lives in the area you are interested in fishing and is also an NA with extensive building experience

    http://www.tadroberts.ca/
     
  10. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    A very simple sketch would do the job...nothing to scale or technical. And while your sketching, I may be able to help.....you must simply elect me..SUPREME LEADER...dictator for life, and I will instantly outlaw all industrial, clinically precise, technological fishing and hand fishing back over to owner operator, non industrial, non technological fisherman . Your design phase would be accelerated !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  11. MickT
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    Location: New Orleans

    MickT Junior Member

    I have seen a boat just like this one,http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/displayPhoto.jsp?boat_id=2264309&boatname=47%27+Skookum+Ketch&photo_revised_date=1284773028000&photo_name=at+dock&photo=1&url=&back=%2Flisting%2FboatFullDetails.jsp rigged for albacore trolling and claiming to have a 20 ton hold, but I never saw a fish ticket and it didnt look it. The F/V Rose, in Sitka, is the best looking working sailboat i've seen, but they have a 7 ton hold. And they dont sail while working. I talked to a guy in Port Townsend that trolled salmon in a Skookum and said it sailed fine with 7 tons of fish and ice in the hold.
    The main idea is to have an enjoyable and fun time cruising, looking for good sea surface tempuratures and fish, for up to 30 days (time to reach some of the tuna grounds in the pacific from a West Coast port). Then flick on the big genset and the blast freezers and fill the hold, hopefully within 30 days, then make it back, or at least to a place to refuel. This would involve sailing with 15 to 20 tons in the hold(s). I've not been able to find anybody who's done this, but i'm sure i'm just not looking in the right places.
    I'm sure Mr. Roberts or Mr. Guillermo could fix me right up, but i've no idea how much NAs charge for preliminary sketches. I could spend 1-2k at this point, but i'd like a better idea of what I want before I do that. Could anyone recommend some books on sailing or boat design to a give me a few ideas about options?
    I've been sailing twice, aboard my friend Brians 28 ft Pearson Triton, enough to find out that sailing is quite fun. And messing about in boats is quite fun. Without ready capitol (read rich family) most fishing ventures fail anyways, so if it fails i'd at least like to have a sailboat to show for it. :)
     
  12. MickT
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    Location: New Orleans

    MickT Junior Member

    Micheal, if you do that, the boat will never be built, because i'll be out of a job. And the boat wont function because the refrigeration system i've designed for it is pretty technological. Lets stay away from all that. Different horses for different courses.
     
  13. peter radclyffe
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    you can build a steel brixham trawler, but not for one man
     
  14. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    As far as books ? Hmm, Ill think on ot. The libraries of the world are full of books on all aspects sailing, sails , rig design...Many are really technical, the size of an encyclopedia and you will instantly fall asleep reading them !!! I think on it.
     

  15. peter radclyffe
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    Location: europe

    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    the F A O fishing boat books
     
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