Collision in/near Venezuelan waters

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by kerosene, Apr 6, 2020.

  1. DogCavalry
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    DogCavalry Senior Member

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  2. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    Are private yachts considered "flagged"? Do you just gotta fly a flag or is more paperwork/filing required? Is there a master list of Flagged Vessels to work off? What about "hot pursuit (into international waters, from territorial waters) of vessels SUSPECTED of drug or arms smuggling"? Seems like "drugs" is the magic word any Law Enforcement can use to do anything these days.

    Given the refugee crisis in Venezuela these days, I'd say any ship lurking off coast without good reason could be stopped for anti-slavery inspection without stretching Probable Cause too far. Last I heard, Brazil was failing (no doubt mostly on purpose) to stop widespread slavery on plantations.
     
  3. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    1) Yes, yachts can be flag vessels.
    2) Yes, there is a whole lot of paperwork.
    3) Yes, there is a documented list
    4) No, once a flagged vessel passes into international waters/or vice versa, a foreign national flagged vessel cannot continue pursuit and detain unless directly permitted by consent or agreement. For the general example, see Article 23 of Convention on the High Seas, noting that if your country is a signatory, another signatory already has permission to pursue. This does not apply to non-flagged vessels (or rogue states at your peril), and you can pursue, but not detain, flagged vessels of non-signatories. (If you were already engaged...that means a hot incident or piracy. Generally, Rules of Engagement are pretty definitive of that subject).
    5) Smuggling (drugs, arms, or people) and fishing are subject to specific international agreements were the parties consent to permit boarding and inspection by "regulatory nation" vessels on the high seas.
    FWIW, most smuggling vessels (with the exception of some rogue states) are not flagged vessel. And non-national flagged subs/semi-subs are always going to have problems (see the guy with the TURTLE replica) because there is no such thing as a "friendly" submarine.
    Convention on the High Seas. https://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/8_1_1958_high_seas.pdf
     
  4. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    Any Master List of these agreements, updated of course???
     
  5. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

  6. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    So you are saying that each time the USCG boards foreign boats on international waters, as they routinely do, the USA is committing piracy and an act of war?
     
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  7. DogCavalry
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    Yup. Afraid so. Unless the USA already has an agreement in place with relevant country. Which the USA generally does, because the USA is generally the good guy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  8. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Piracy is defined as "committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft,". Military ships commit an act of war. Another point is that hot pursuit is allowed. If the pursuit starts in territorial waters, the State is allowed to continue into International waters.
     
  9. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    That's the kicker.
    The USA is not a full signatory of UNCLOS.
     
  10. DogCavalry
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    DogCavalry Senior Member

    Wow! Okay, that's not as big a surprise as it should be.
     
  11. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    True, but that does not cover what we are talking about here, which is two signatories of Convention on the High Seas (note that Venezuela has neither signed nor acceded the UNCLOS, while Portugal has, and the US has agreed to most of it) . The UN Law of the Sea has a lot of issues, especially about innocent passage, "economic" rights, and free trade (Part XI), things the US fought wars over. FWIW, China recently claimed under UNCLOS that it was an "arctic" state, claimed the entire sea east of its coast as Archipelagic waters, and with 1/3rd of the world population should have access to 1/3rd of the world's oceans for exploitation.

    Edit,
    https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1007&context=cmsi-red-books
     
  12. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Indeed, it was in ref to this post:

    Similarly, this:

    Also has nothing to do with what is being discussed. It is another slight drift, as all threads do.

    The 'drift'... is often as interesting as the main topic :)
     
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  13. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    True, but back on topic...Whiskey Tango Foxtrot was the NAIGUATA's CO thinking to play bumper cars with another vessel that out massed him 4 to 1. Perhaps this is a malicious compliance from above direction? Does anybody know if the NAIGUATA was aluminum?
     
  14. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    Now that I think about it, this starts to feel like the old Soviet issue of a Political Officer and CO....I mean what CO would deliberately risk HIS vessel without direct authority from above?
     

  15. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    And there in lies the mystery. It makes zero sense, which would suggest "other" factors are at play... but what?...who knows.
    Maybe we shall never know... which just adds/fuels the conspiracy theories! Since there is not a lot of Law and due diligence going on in that part of the world...
     
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