PacificJim
Junior Member
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- Mar 24, 2016
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Hi all,
I’ve got a design SAILING Charateristics question (vs. hull materials question). I’ve read up on the forums here and a few other areas, and I have a general idea. We don’t have the ability to try out both, but I’ve sailed on Archer's before, and liked the tubby feel, and I've been on faster more modern designs but I don't recall which designers except I would prefer slower and stouter for passage making vs light and fast bouncing around.
Differences?
40’ Collin Archer -Double-Ended Cutter (40’x14’x7’8”) -Fat, Heavy Displacement, Long-Full (Deep) Keel boat (currently rigged as a cutter, but we’d want to shorten the mast and turn it into a ketch eventually). It’s like a finer-entry lifeboat with a deep keel.. Absolutely typical Collin Archer double-ended- just google it and you get the idea (I can post some pics of the bilges from the front and from the side). It's very much like a Westsail, but more wineglass shape to the hull perhaps?
vs.
Alberg designed 30-36’ Cutters (Pearson, Cape Dory, etc). Flat Sterns, slack bilges, bigger overhangs… some reportedly have hobby horsing, some have weather helm on those missing a bowspit (wind vane and sheet-2-tiller issues for single handed work), but they do better into the wind of course ...but not that a gentleman goes into the wind, eh?
lol
OUR INTENDED USE:
Mostly SINGLE HANDED in the Trade winds (broad/beam reaches or downwind, mostly me, and I need sleep); Long Distance Cruising. I want to cross oceans and need lots of space for water/provisions for a few people. Since none can really outrun bad weather, it would be nice to be able have one that can handle some of the worst we might see.
FACTORS:
We LIKE the Collin, as for the same price is has at least 3-4x the VOLUME for provisions and storage as all the other designs (it’s far bigger than even the 40-42’ Alberg designs). But people buy these pretty Alberg designs and sail them around the world all the time.
Why? All things considered, what kind of handling characteristics would one expect from either designs?
–-Is the sailing characteristics better or worth this trade off?
Caveats: The 40’ Collin Archer has a VERY long, deep keel and it’s ferro (check out the thread here if you want, as we decide if it's worth restoring or not for us), so it has less ballast than one would normally expect -before we’d get the ferro we’d make sure it’s a good ferro (it’s 40+ years old and just the issues in that thread, so possibly a good boat for someone like us on a budget).
What kinds of sailing characteristics and behavior would one expect from either design? What’s your experience with them? What might be better for our trade wind sailing? Is that Collin design going to trip up too much or be more of a liability for broaching far more than the Albergs?
I'm also concerned about a wind vane -we've only found a used Aries so far; the Albergs will need a wind vane for any chance of single-handing it, but the Collin's I've heard can be set up for self-steering (this one was) with just the sheet-to-tiller blocks. That would be wonderful.
Thanks!
I’ve got a design SAILING Charateristics question (vs. hull materials question). I’ve read up on the forums here and a few other areas, and I have a general idea. We don’t have the ability to try out both, but I’ve sailed on Archer's before, and liked the tubby feel, and I've been on faster more modern designs but I don't recall which designers except I would prefer slower and stouter for passage making vs light and fast bouncing around.
Differences?
40’ Collin Archer -Double-Ended Cutter (40’x14’x7’8”) -Fat, Heavy Displacement, Long-Full (Deep) Keel boat (currently rigged as a cutter, but we’d want to shorten the mast and turn it into a ketch eventually). It’s like a finer-entry lifeboat with a deep keel.. Absolutely typical Collin Archer double-ended- just google it and you get the idea (I can post some pics of the bilges from the front and from the side). It's very much like a Westsail, but more wineglass shape to the hull perhaps?
vs.
Alberg designed 30-36’ Cutters (Pearson, Cape Dory, etc). Flat Sterns, slack bilges, bigger overhangs… some reportedly have hobby horsing, some have weather helm on those missing a bowspit (wind vane and sheet-2-tiller issues for single handed work), but they do better into the wind of course ...but not that a gentleman goes into the wind, eh?
lol
OUR INTENDED USE:
Mostly SINGLE HANDED in the Trade winds (broad/beam reaches or downwind, mostly me, and I need sleep); Long Distance Cruising. I want to cross oceans and need lots of space for water/provisions for a few people. Since none can really outrun bad weather, it would be nice to be able have one that can handle some of the worst we might see.
FACTORS:
We LIKE the Collin, as for the same price is has at least 3-4x the VOLUME for provisions and storage as all the other designs (it’s far bigger than even the 40-42’ Alberg designs). But people buy these pretty Alberg designs and sail them around the world all the time.
Why? All things considered, what kind of handling characteristics would one expect from either designs?
–-Is the sailing characteristics better or worth this trade off?
Caveats: The 40’ Collin Archer has a VERY long, deep keel and it’s ferro (check out the thread here if you want, as we decide if it's worth restoring or not for us), so it has less ballast than one would normally expect -before we’d get the ferro we’d make sure it’s a good ferro (it’s 40+ years old and just the issues in that thread, so possibly a good boat for someone like us on a budget).
What kinds of sailing characteristics and behavior would one expect from either design? What’s your experience with them? What might be better for our trade wind sailing? Is that Collin design going to trip up too much or be more of a liability for broaching far more than the Albergs?
I'm also concerned about a wind vane -we've only found a used Aries so far; the Albergs will need a wind vane for any chance of single-handing it, but the Collin's I've heard can be set up for self-steering (this one was) with just the sheet-to-tiller blocks. That would be wonderful.
Thanks!
