Cold Molding with Steel Thin Plates by point welding and epoxy laminates

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by mtumut, Jun 8, 2016.

  1. mtumut
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    mtumut Junior Member

    WRONG IDEA I DONT THINK EPOXY AND STEEL LAMINATE IS GOOD FOR OPEN SEA. LOTS OF THINGS CAN GO WRONG. WAS THOUGHT EXPERIMENT .

    Hello there,

    When I began reading boat magazines 30 years ago , I thought laminating or cold molding thin large sheets of steel and point welding plus epoxy adhesiving seem to me very good ooption.

    I think it is still good idea. If they point weld cars againts severe crashes , I think point weld the less than 1 mm thick large sheets with lots of points and using a adhesive.

    I am thinking to build a boat out of steel because epoxy is ultra expensive and polyester have a smell issue.

    I want to build a 3 meters long boat with steel laminates reaching total 3mm thickness and I want to go faraway.

    Delamination can be a issue but there is lots of adhesive options where they are using for aircraft airbus wing aluminum laminates.

    The good thing , cutting a thin sheet with laser is fast and fast cutting is cheap.

    You can roll the plates to a smaller size and transporting is easy.

    Umut
    Istanbul
     
  2. Wavewacker
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    Wavewacker Senior Member

    I'm no engineer, but 3 meters isn't big enough IMO, and if you're wanting to go far from Turkey you might think in terms of more like 10, 12 meters or more. Just sheet metal won't do it, you'll need framing to put that skin to.

    No idea of a design but sheet metal rollers and brakes in my area are limited to about 8 feet and dyes and rollers for compound bends might cost more than the boat. That depends on your design.

    I'm sure spot welding and proper adhesives on sheet goods would be fine depending on the design, I don'r know, may be sheeting over ply or planks.

    Steel certainly would be nice, properly designed, you may get some suggestions from the designers here. :)
     
  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    3mm thickness would be more appropriate for a boat three or four times longer. The corrosion between the sheets is going to be a major problem. Weight is going to be really high too. Also, how "far away" do you want to go in a 3 meter boat?
     
  4. mtumut
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    mtumut Junior Member

    WRONG IDEA DO NOT USE FOR OPEN SEA READ THE BLACK MESSAGE IN THE ROW BELOW

    Thank you Gonzo , thickness tip is very good. May be 1 mm is good ? I want to cross the med or going to North Sea by Istanbul - Black Sea - Bulgaria - Romania - Danube and Germany Mainz Route. I am comparing lots of boat building technologies and I am not selfish , I want my ideas been stored in a archive for different users or beginners.

    I want to create clean , least chemistry used , least weighted raw material used , odor free, highest strenght boats. But at danube , may be I would only be needed a rowing scull and half horse power engine.

    Readers , please write whatever you think . Than I will compile my all 12 clean fast boat building ideas in one thread and may be go some other route and never building a boat. This is chess for me.

    ps. what about stainless steel rolls paper thin.?

    Umut
     
  5. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    Plywood would probably be the best . A lot nicer to live in than steel too.
     
  6. fredrosse
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    fredrosse USACE Steam

    Building Methods

    Almost all types of boat construction have been attempted many times, even with people who have a good working knowledge of marine design. While your idea may have merit, there would most probably be difficulties with a completely new construction method, and these difficulties may not even be realized by a knowledgeable marine designer. Differential expansion, stress concentration, local distortions.......

    The type of construction that is popular represents a workable option, and very few steel boats of small size are made. I would think a simple plywood hull, with fiberglass cloth and epoxy covering would be best for a single custom hull design. This is well proven from 2 meters to 20 meters.
     
  7. mtumut
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    mtumut Junior Member

    BEWARE WRONG IDEA DONT USE FOR OPEN SEA

    Plywood is best in usa or europe but not here , quality poor , plywoods are wet, prices are extreme and transportation is difficult or impossible in Istanbul . I dont like to use wood and its extremelly weak to water. Cutting is extremelly loud and plates are very big and heavy.

    Steel thin sheets , for example stainless steel 0.2 mm folio sold by meters and rolled.
    Extremelly easy to cut with metal scissors , long but narrow rolls are cheap. Its about 35 cms or say 15 inches to go infinity. Larger ones are possible. You can apply cold molding. I think 1 square meters or 10 foot square , 1 mm thick is 8 kilograms or less.
     
  8. mtumut
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    mtumut Junior Member

    WRONG IDEA NOT GOOD FOR OPEN SEA

    Fredrosse , thanks. Airbus builds wings and bodies with 0,3 mm thick aluminum , frp composite.

    I think if we cover the internal and external side of steel laminations , it is done.

    Calculations are many , I cant hire a designer.

    If you list here what has to be calculated , and which book covers that calculations , may be it helps. I can think better.

    Please list whatever I need to know.

    Thank you,

    Umut
    Istanbul
     
  9. nzboy
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    nzboy Senior Member

    There is no structural advantage of moulding layers of thin metal together, when you can buy a welder and weld 6mm alloy for bottom 3mm for sides and just about build anything origami style or build frames and cover them
     
  10. mtumut
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    mtumut Junior Member

    BUT the torsional movement or interlayer force can crash the boat if the epoxy does not withstand.

    I think this is not good idea.

    DONT TRY THIS FOR BIG BOATS BUT MAY BE KAYAK , MOTH , ROWER OR DINGHY


    THAT TECHNOLOGY IS GOOD FOR NON CHOPPY WEATHER OR PORT NOT FOR OPEN SEA
     
  11. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    If you think that cutting wood is loud, go to any metal shop and compare the noise level; it is a lot louder. There isn't a single book that would cover the calculations for a structure like this. You need a whole engineering course. Basically, it can be done if you don't mind something that is heavy, expensive, hard to build, won't last long and will have little resale value.
     
  12. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    and polyester have a smell issue.

    Yes polly stinks while being laminated , but not after a few weeks..

    To post cure rapidly either sunshine , or a steam hose works.

    A polly boat might have some resale value , glued sheet metal???
     
  13. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    That sounds a little thick for a boat just under 10 feet long.
     
  14. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    No matter the material used, a 3 meter boat is too small for extended touring. it will be slow, and it will be of questionable ability to endure rough weather. Long voyages have been done in tiny boats but the occupant has been much the worse for wear.
     

  15. nzboy
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    nzboy Senior Member

    There are plenty of older tinnies with 1.5mm , anything over 5 metres tends to use thicker sheet but less internal support and yes they are heavy but you can park on anything and its a size that is easy to weld a opposed to riveted and spot welded the thicker floor provides a certain amount of ballast
     
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