Cockpit draining

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by MTodd, Mar 5, 2021.

  1. MTodd
    Joined: Mar 2021
    Posts: 5
    Likes: 2, Points: 3
    Location: Houma, Louisiana

    MTodd Junior Member

    New here and new to sailboats, so please let me know if I'm not in the right place.

    I'm working on a Reinell 22 restoration project, concentrating first on seaworthiness. One of my biggest concerns is the cockpit self-bailing system. The designer has a single drain in the center of the aft sole of the cockpit, connected by a 1-1/2" hose to a thru-hull in the (full) transom. I'm not sure if it was/is a scupper with a flap or just a plain thru-hull, but it is at the lowest point on the transom - well below the waterline.

    Common sense backed up by just a little bit of reading tell me this is a very bad idea. I'm thinking if it stays there, it should have a seacock and/or a ball valve before the hose section. The flap-type scuppers I'm seeing say they're not for use below the waterline.

    I prefer the idea of glassing it up and installing at least two scuppers at the level of the sole, which is just a few inches above the waterline. There is about a 4-inch gap between the cockpit aft wall and the transom, so I'm assuming it would need a flexible connection between the two to prevent cracking.

    This is definitely NOT a blue water boat, so I'm more concerned about a hose leaking than I am about the cockpit being swamped. Am I overthinking this?
     
  2. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
    Posts: 810
    Likes: 333, Points: 63
    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    Welcome to Boatdesign.net and welcome to the incredible world of sailing.

    The location of the scupper thru hull is fine below the waterline. On my Mariner 19, they are under the boat entirely, right next to the centerboard trunk. The water in the scupper pipe won't get higher than the waterline, as long as the cockpit sole is above the waterline.

    Unless you've heard that Reinell 22s have problems with their scupper location, you're okay.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
  3. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 3,082
    Likes: 1,201, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 37
    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    MT, does your boat live afloat, or do you keep her ashore when not using her?
    If you have any photos that you can post of your cockpit, and of the current drainage system, that would be useful.
    I can see your train of thought, re how it would be better to have the drain exiting above the waterline - and having two drains will drain the cockpit much faster than one if you get a big wave landing in the cockpit. Have you ever been out in conditions where this could have been a possibility?

    On the other hand, if the section of hose is in good condition, and ideally has two S/S hose clamps (in good condition) securing the hose at each end, then the odds of the hose spontaneously failing while you are out sailing must be extremely unlikely.
     
  4. kapnD
    Joined: Jan 2003
    Posts: 1,102
    Likes: 270, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 40
    Location: hawaii, usa

    kapnD Senior Member

    Having one center drain is poor design for a sailboat, which, when underway, is inevitably heeled to one side or the other, leaving a constant puddle until the boat becomes upright again.
    I wouldn’t be concerned about the underwater location of the thru hull drain fitting, but an occasional inspection and subsequent maintenance of the drain system is a good idea.
     
  5. MTodd
    Joined: Mar 2021
    Posts: 5
    Likes: 2, Points: 3
    Location: Houma, Louisiana

    MTodd Junior Member

    Thanks for the replies and sorry for the delay. Had a great weekend on Dauphin Island (Alabama).

    This boat will always be trailered, as far as I can predict. Let's try an image of a rough sketch here...
    [​IMG]

    I've never been out in any conditions, though the boat has successfully weathered a hurricane or two in my back yard.
    Long-term goals have us cruising in mostly protected waters. Vermillion Bay, Lake Pontchartrain, northern Gulf Coast, Florida Keys. It's got a full transom and what I'm assuming is plenty of freeboard.

    So it looks like I need a new scupper (maybe with a flap valve) and a good tough section of hose with 4 clamps.

    It's refreshing that nobody told me to scrap the boat. I think I'll like it here.
     
  6. MTodd
    Joined: Mar 2021
    Posts: 5
    Likes: 2, Points: 3
    Location: Houma, Louisiana

    MTodd Junior Member

    2nd attempt at image... cockpit drain.jpg
     
  7. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 3,082
    Likes: 1,201, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 37
    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Here is a photo of a Reinell 22 on the Sailboatdata site -
    https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/reinell-22

    MT, can you post a photo of your boat and the cockpit please?

    We have a 35' sailing boat - she originally had a pair of cockpit drains going to 1.5" diameter through hull fittings with seacocks in the hull shell, under the cockpit.
    We always had to leave the seacocks open when not on the boat, as the cockpit would otherwise fill up with water when it rained.
    So I took out the through hull fittings, glassed up the holes, and fitted two new drain hoses out from the aft corners of the cockpit to new through hull fittings about 6" above the waterline, and inside the lazarette locker.
    These work well - the only disadvantage is that water comes in the leeward drain when heeled over, and there is a possibility of a wet leeward foot when standing at the helm.
    I only mentioned this to show that it is viable - however for your boat I think it would be fine to leave your drain how it is, especially as she lives on a trailer when not in use.

    You had said in your first post :
    One advantage of this is that you would be able to drain the cockpit twice as fast if a big sea does come on board.
    And I wouldn't worry about trying to have flexible connections on these new drains if you do decide to install them - for a 4" gap you could easily use standard fibreglass tube, glassed in well at each end.
    What is the access like for doing work in this area - I am guessing that it is probably rather difficult?
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
  8. MTodd
    Joined: Mar 2021
    Posts: 5
    Likes: 2, Points: 3
    Location: Houma, Louisiana

    MTodd Junior Member

    After closer inspection, it turns out the cockpit sole is maybe 2" above the waterline - if the paint line is to be believed anyway. So after the sump and the 90d fitting, the hose would still be below the WL.

    Yes, it will be a tight fit, but I can reach over from the port quarter berth, which goes all the way back.
    Here's the requested pictures. I obviously haven't cleaned the boat up yet.

    Thanks again for the help.

    reinell cockpit sole.jpg reinell transom.jpg
     
  9. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 3,082
    Likes: 1,201, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 37
    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Thank you for the photos MT - I think that she does look like a suitable candidate for installing a pair of drains going straight out through the transom, above the waterline - no worries then about a hole in the hull below the waterline, and you get an added bonus of being able to drain the cockpit twice as fast with two drains rather than one, if a wave dumps into the cockpit. .
     
    Will Gilmore likes this.

  10. MTodd
    Joined: Mar 2021
    Posts: 5
    Likes: 2, Points: 3
    Location: Houma, Louisiana

    MTodd Junior Member

    I agree. But not a priority project. I still have to:

    - Finish potting holes and mount deck hardware
    - Build or buy a rudder
    - Finish a hull repair started by the PO
    - Make some hatches and trim
    - Take stock of the rigging
    - Lots more

    I'll start new threads for each project. Thanks again for making me feel welcome.
     
    bajansailor and Will Gilmore like this.
Loading...
Similar Threads
  1. Christopher Thomas
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    3,132
  2. nickireson
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    1,518
  3. nickireson
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    1,145
  4. fallguy
    Replies:
    25
    Views:
    1,972
  5. fallguy
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    984
  6. fallguy
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    1,053
  7. marlin974
    Replies:
    21
    Views:
    5,618
  8. robwilk37
    Replies:
    15
    Views:
    6,840
  9. pha7env
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    5,131
  10. zembekiko
    Replies:
    15
    Views:
    2,998
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.