CNC Plans not Included

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by jorgepease, Sep 19, 2016.

  1. jorgepease
    Joined: Feb 2012
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    I'd say I'm excited but I'm always excited when I make an improvement lol!!

    My last design the roof was radical looking, I like that Lambo look but it was too much. I studied the SIG 60 roof and it's got a more severe bend up front and levels out going back. I tried that on mine including inclining down on each level to give less side profile and I think it worked!!!!!!!

    Also, forgot to mention I added the taper to the top of the hulls and lifted them 6 inches. The result is the hulls look no taller, they actually look narrower and I could raise my interior floor so the wing bunks are back at 36" height and I can re-explore the option of sticking the batteries under the floor!!

    Sad that I didn't start with yacht design when my uncle offered me a job and to send me to NA school 40 years ago!!!!!!!!!

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  2. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    I don't know how I will get the dinghy up there but I have a good fish cleaning station!!
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  3. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Blocked off in front, I think it's safer, last thing I need is a wave to break on me and ruin my nice induction oven! Got 30 solar panels fitted, that's gonna be it. Big fishing or deck boxes in back, seen how people tackle the fish on decks, not me, gaf them and swing them right into the cooler in one quick move, need to add fish cutting table and a wash down ... Nice eating tables in front cockpit, haven't figured out where to put the interior table but likely it will be a foldaway. This design adds some weight with the windows but I lost some on the decks, don't think it will be much of a difference.

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    Played around with a vintage look and an idea of making the forward hull more buoyant than aft but I don't think she will drag. I don't know why I think that shape is better, maybe because most swimming things seem to be shaped that way but I am not pursing it, was just for fun ...

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  4. jorgepease
    Joined: Feb 2012
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    The race car streamlined look didn't go down as well as I thought it might. I shopped it around and people prefer the flat roof.

    Here is the flat roof, without the windbreak and lowered. I kept the front cockpit helm/eating area and the aft fishing platform and put
    a second helm under the roof.

    For kicks I drew up the molds to see how hard they would be to build, pretty simple and with two molds I build almost every
    supporting surface on the boat. The bulkheads fill in most other surfaces so only a few extra panels are needed. Grey is for cutouts
    and red is extras. I wouldn't glass over the grey areas, it just simplifies mold construction to leave them in and I get an already laid out
    canvas to expedite the custom work. Cutouts for cabinets, windows etc .... not shown.
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  5. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Another big time saver, support the roof and create the frame for the fold down windows out of the bulkhead! Working my way back to see where else I can support the roof and take advantage of the bulkheads that traverse.

    One area that I know is going to be a problem is around the cutout for stairs leading into hulls, I have to block rain from getting in there on days when I don't want to roll down the sides or shut the door.
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  6. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Guy gives a long review on the open Nautitech. Was interesting to see what people are looking for. I agree on some points but the boats I saw at the last boat show where all pretty shabby... At least the Nautitech has been shown reaching 20 knots.
     
  7. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    The idea of using bulkheads to support the roof is ok but not thought through. Much better idea to create one more mold for the roof supporting structure. This is the lowest the roof has been at the cost of BD clearance but I still have over a meter. That makes three major molds to create the shell.

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  8. groper
    Joined: Jun 2011
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    Location: australia

    groper Senior Member

    Jorge - all of the australian designers that use 3D modelling to create their designs, do not suggest building molds for 1 off boat builds despite it being a simple process to offer the mold making materials as a CNC cut kit. There's reasons for this - it would be prudent for you to investigate why.

    Id also do thorough budget on this boat as its looking extremely expensive to my eye. If you only have $400k - forget it, youll never get it over the line and end up like so mamy others with a 3/4 finished boat and put it up for sale at pennies on the dollar 5 years later when the monies all dried up... seen countless examples of this, dont be one of them...
     
  9. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Hey Skip, hope all is well.

    I appreciate the warning.

    You have to consider that most home builders construct the boat as they earn the money plus the idea of spending 70K just to build a mold when the materials for the boat cost that much, and then to throw said mold away, that is hard for them to justify. Designers know this and try to look for ways to accommodate this market.

    Since I plan to build more than one, I have no other option but to use a mold. The real problem is the infrastructure, I need a space with trolley hoist, either on the water or with a clear wide road to truck to the water and that is not cheap. I have lately been looking at land on rivers here in FL. I can get a sizable plot (over 5 acres) erect a tent with trolley hoist for around $50K. Then I have a place to store the molds and I don't throw away money on rent.

    Problem is I really wanted to access the EU markets. I will fly to Croatia soon and look around for commercial properties that would be suitable.
     
  10. groper
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    groper Senior Member

    So in other words- your gonna enter the boat building commercial business.... all well and good, but the best way to do that is in a country with abundant cheap labour...

    Nothing about what youve said is cheap. Youve chosen the most expensive way of doing everything, most expensive type of rig, most expensive propulsion etc... theres huge financial risk in so much of everything youve proposed to date...

    Why not have someone else build it for you, then add your solar electric system and rig of choice? I know a guy in indonesia building cats and gets them out the door under $300k... youll be miles ahead compared to the investment your about to make in this...
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  11. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    I think you forgot the part where I said I like to build things :) and I have more big-job experience both as a tradesman and proj mgr than most people. I am 54 man, there has to be some reason I put up with all that stress and aggravation all these years. It's my turn to reap the rewards of my knowledge, lol

    The flats skiff introduced me to the materials and that was intimidating for sure. Worst part was 3 months in and knowing that the system was seriously flawed and then sticking with it for 1.5 years when it should have taken me one month or two max to complete the entire boat.

    I don't feel intimidated anymore, now I am back to thinking like a project mgr. considering infrastructure, schedules, planning market position etc... That is not uncharted territory for me.

    I am going to publish the entire build so people can see that the cost of a mold isn't to be taken at face value. Say the mold cost you 100K, my bet is that the boost in efficiency saves you $5oK over a one off build the size of my boat ... so the cost of the mold is really only $50K ... Next boat popped out of the mold and you are break even from that perspective.

    But also take it from the perspective of sanity... the Shionning build by the three European guys (I posted it early on in this thread) spent over 1.5 years before they had a shell almost completed and that was not finished yet ... and my project is fairly larger than that one :eek:. Three years later and you know those guys were suffering lol... but power to them for sticking with it.
     
  12. groper
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    groper Senior Member

    I think you missed the part where i said i have no doubt you have the skills to do this- thats not the problem. The point im tryiny to make is your thinking like a project manager instead of an investor...
    Countless boat building shops have gone broke over the years- its a fools game- have a look at what happened to the last high profile name in catamarans, gumboat. He turned his large fortune into bankruptcy in less time than takes a home builder to build one boat!
    Dont buy into the madness...

    What i regret doing is wasting those years building my boat when i could have built 3 more houses and sold them. Id now have enough money to retire before im 40 and go buy a yacht and sail away. I built my first home at 25 as an owner builder btw, with the help of a few sub contractors it was finished in less than 6 months 3300sqft.... should have kept going with that and id be in tahiti already! Btw-just sold the property i bought to build that boat in the front yard- made 5x the return i did from building the boat over a similar period of time...
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
    waikikin likes this.
  13. jorgepease
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    jorgepease Senior Member

    Ahhh got you!! Yeah can't argue with that but I'm not chasing money anymore. I've had a few of those regret moments but you never know what would have happened had you done it differently. I've seen people who have forgotten how to have fun from doing the right thing for so long.

    I'm not gonna do what Gunboat did, no debt, limit my overhead and how much work I take on. The charter business is perfect being seasonal.

    Build boats, charter them and sail to warmer waters in the winter months, the other stuff, boat builders club is needed but the right location has to happen.
     
  14. groper
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    groper Senior Member

    Speaking of fun - im back into my kiteboarding again, off to the south pacific next week for more :)

     

  15. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    waikikin Senior Member

    Hi Groper
    Nice anecdote on the house similar to my factory initially I set out to just run a small 10m charter boat & had been working at a sailing school... I had a Beach marine 10m but not in survey so considered the alternatives such as buying a seawind but couldn't really go for so built tooling for a 12.4, bought land built a factory, suffered business decline in gfc got an ordinary job- changed to a great job looking after a fleet for govt had one or two good sized boats for family use the whole time & now some time later the factory land on its own would buy 4-6 10m seawind charter boats.... The thing is you have to do something & the things that go alongside supporting that often end up being the long term investments so one is the catalyst for the other.... very egg & chicken. BTW, I'd never sell the factory unless forced by circumstance- psychologically locked into the "capability" as a ego supporting crutch, besides the three Sons that might need somewhere to do things as spare land...
    I've done similar with owner built houses as a young bloke at 21-33 & done a couple since including the home my family lives in, best "time" spent on actual forward progress in a financial sense though the beach marine we had was similar cost about 50 & sold for 95 seven years later after a lot of fun.
    Boats are fun! But a high level of energy required.
    Jeff
     
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