CNC Plans not Included

21 feet from bow. Any further and it's going in the forward cabin. doable still I suppose.

 

Remember the daggerboard also will be about the same position of the 33% sail chord - you might have to change your layout to suit this. This is why you cant design a boat in isolation from the engineering!

 

Got lucky on that one, needs to go forward just a bit.

 

Im not going to draw in anymore design details on that, already I see my boom might not clear the other mast when it swings in. Nice looking boat to me!!

 

Boom constraint is a problem you will have to consider.
Unrestrained the booms can hit each other even if they clear the other mast.
Bipolar had that happen on his first sail. Believe you can hear it on the video.
Been thinking that some physical stop point on the centerline of the roof might be the safest solution.
Booms can swing freely outboard but inboard they stop on the centerline. Groper?
Some restraint could be built into the masts themselves but forces there seem very high.

umm, might make it difficult to drop windward sail if the mast can't weathercock freely.

 

Michael did clash his booms early after launching but i didnt see it on the vid? Its a problem only in a gybe, tacking is automatic. Once you have experience with the rig you will learn to sheet in the sail hanging over the boat before you gybe and then it cant happen after that - experience fixes the problem.

 

I thought stbd hit port at the 20 second mark. What ever.

 

Maybe, cant really see it, but the lee mast has already gybed at that point. But the problem occurs when the windward mast gybes first into the lee mast which is still laying across the boat... bang... if you sheet one sail right in first before gybing the boat youll be fine. Id suggest doing that regardless so the sail doesnt smash so hard when it does flop to the other side- especially when its uber windy... BANG!

 

Another - potentially better method, is to rearrange the sheeting through blocks on the bows. So when running and gybing down wind, the booms gybe across the bows and this avoids the big BANG. It becomes essentially the same as tacking upwind with a self tacking jib... the masts become "self gybing"... problem solved

Only requirement is the booms need to not be so long as to clear the other mast. Can sail the boat DDW in complete safety too- cant really say that for a conventional mainsail...

 

Most likely its a problem that happens only in very light variable winds with some swell where the wind lacks sufficient power to overcome the sail swing induced by the swell. As you say, you'd get used to it.

 

It is not about "being different", it is about making cruising as fast, easy and comfortable as you can. An unstayed rig is the way to do it, for the reasons I outlined in my previous post.

No one is arguing about the cost benefits of replacing a stayed mast on a boat designed for it.

If the boat was designed for an unstayed mast, the forebeam, striker, traveller, traveller controls, headsails, sheets, furlers, sail tracks, prodder, compression structure under the mast, chainplates and all the extra laminating and construction required to install them would be replaced with a couple of low cost bearings (~$300 each), a couple of kgs of low cost carbon tow ($Aus50/kg) included in the deck and roof laminates and a line to hold up the front of the tramp.

The end costs are similar. But there is more labour in fitting the stayed rig than there is in building the unstayed mast. So if you paid someone to do both jobs, or did them both yourself, the stayed rig is more expensive, heavier and far less convenient to use.

The level of skill required is the same for both. In fact, the mast probably requires less skill (cut and set up frames and mould surface, cut and lay cloth and uni, vac bag or infuse. Repeat. Join). It is certainly less messy.

There is no "Bang" when you gybe an ustayed rig. As the boom comes across, release the sheet and the sail will carry on rotating until it is streaming in front of the mast with no driving force or sheet load. Or, sail by the lee until it gybes. No need to touch the sheet. Same result, regardless of wind strength.Apart from the change in motion from the waves, no one will be aware you have gybed. Compare that to getting out of your warm bunk on a rainy night to help your wife gybe a stayed rig in a squall, then think about which is the better cruising rig.

 

shorter booms mean higher aspect ratio is there a limit to that that you know of. Also, right now I have masts tight to inboard side, I assume it would be ok to offset them to outboard side and gain about 6 feet between the two of them.

 

Rob, I will contact you guys for sure on mast and maybe for entire boat.

I think the bang mentioned was more of a pop as the boom reaches the point of crossing over and accelerates to the other side before being abruptly stopped

 

Your boat could be a little beamier too jorge- 30-33ft wide is pretty normal for a 60ft cat.

Theres no limit to high aspect as you say. Shorter booms on the same height sail means higher aspect but also less total area. You would be crazy to have booms so long that they couldn't swing past and clear the other mast so you could gybe them over the bows rather than the way michael was doing it in his video poster earlier gybing the sails over the stern... hence the bang.

Rob- no argument from me about the performance and ease of use, safety etc of the twin wing mast rig. I still cant agree with you on the total cost being cheaper tho - not even close, which is why we dont see this on more production boats... charter fleets would go for this in a heart beat for the reasons you mensioned- they cant compete on a cost basis however despite is being more suitable for novice sailors...

A line from bow to bow isnt good enough for the trampolines either- cant get enough tension in the tramp, regularly have the entire crew drinking sundowners up there. And without a catwalk or prodder or forebeam a single tramp is huge and needs lots of tension on all 4 sides. Plus its nice to have something solid to walk on up there and hang the anchor off etc- also nice to drop down the catwalk for beach access

 

No I agree, booms have to clear masts and I don't mind this boat being beamier, it's 28 now but 30 would be sweet. The whole idea is it will rarely need to be pulled, I don't need shore power or water so moorings are fine.

Yeah the catwalk stays, that is another luxury area which I can play with. ie little seats on the cross beam to watch the dolphins.

Just showed the house, summer is one of the buying seasons but winter is the main buying season, still have my fingers crossed.

In the meantime I am scrounging up other assets so will probably get started with engineering in a few months regardless of sale of home. Just don't want to be put into a situation where I am too emotionally motivated to lower my price ))

Still have my flats skiff, just took it out for a ride, can't help but smile driving that boat around.

I looked into watermakers, the good ones are expensive like you said, I must have been looking at cheapos. One that is interesting to me SCHENKER dissalatori watermakers desalinators dessalinisateur wassermachers http://www.schenkerwatermakers.com/watermaker-ready60-analogic.php ...

• Capacity: 60 lit/h - Gal/h 15.8
• Power supply: 12 / 24 VDC or 230 VAC
• Consumpition: 240 watt
• Weight: 38 Kg

Price is probably up there around 7K eu or more. For now I got the dimensions and located where it could go. Trying to put all this stuff close to the batteries and avoid as much cable as possible. Holding tanks for water, I figure no more than 100 liters per hull. I would have a smaller intermediary tank to test the water conversion before pumping into main tanks.

Next toilets and black water treatment!!
Ok will do this in same post -
Raritan Electro Scan Waste Treatment System http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?name=raritan-electro-scan-waste-treatment-system&path=-1|51|2234284|2234296|2234297&id=532781

This blackwater treatment system uses electricity and saltwater to eliminate almost all bacteria from blackwater. It's discharged either directly overboard or into holding tanks as clear water. this one has holding tank for when you are in non discharge areas

Raritan Hold N Treat System http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?name=raritan-hold-n-treat-system&path=-1|51|2234284|2234296|2234297&id=1059500