CNC cut, "Methacrylate" bonded aluminum construction

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by DCockey, Nov 5, 2018.

  1. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 4,707
    Likes: 315, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1485
    Location: Midcoast Maine

    DCockey Senior Member

    The "Rambler 38" is a 38' aluminum center console designed by Sparkman & Stephens' head designer Brendan Abbott. The boat is constructed from aluminum using CNC cut panels cut to the exact shape, and are bonded with "Methacrylate" adhesive. The process is named ExactForm and is described as proprietary.

    Professional Boatbuilder article: The Rambler, a 38' Aluminum Center-Console - Professional BoatBuilder Magazine https://www.proboat.com/2018/08/the-rambler-a-38-aluminum-center-console/

    Rambler Yacht Company: website Home https://www.rambleryachts.com/

    Rambler 38 press release: Rambler Yacht Co. Introduces New American Yacht Line with Announcement of the Rambler 38 Center Console https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/rambler-yacht-co-introduces-new-american-yacht-line-with-announcement-of-the-rambler-38-center-console-300616041.html

    Sparkman & Stephens' website has a brief description and a number of computer renderings Rambler 38 | Sparkman & Stephens https://sparkmanstephens.com/projects/rambler-38/

    The November/December 2018 issue of Maine Boats, Homes & Harbors magazine has an article which is not available online for free.

    From the Rambler Yacht Company website:
    Using the ExactForm™ technique means that topside panels do not require traditional paint systems or coatings. As the plate will be CNC cut to the exact shape, it comes with a factory finish. That finish can be polished, matte, mill spec, coated, or uncoated - all unprecedented finishes. Alternatively, ExactForm™ construction requires no fairing, and the topsides can be finished in any color or graphic using vinyl wraps.

    The MBH&H article about the boats using "Methacrylate" bonding, presumably a form of MMA adhesives. That's the only mention I found of bonding or adhesive. Presumably the use of bonding rather than welding is the reason for the claim that the boat can use the "factory" finish on the aluminum without any fairing.

    Several of the articles, etc mention that Lyman Morse will be the builder but I didn't any mention of the project on the Lyman Morse website or Facebook page.
     
  2. Sean Duval
    Joined: Mar 2019
    Posts: 26
    Likes: 7, Points: 3
    Location: yuma az

    Sean Duval Junior Member

    I'm still learning about different boat building methods, and I still have a long way to go, this is my 1st post, but I have been an avid reader for a long time.

    My comment here is more of a question regarding this proposed build method.

    As I understand what I read the intent is to glue the aluminum boat together with cyanoacrylate glues....which I find spooky and interesting at the same time. I fully realize there are adhesives used in many structural designs and that many of them are used in the automotive world in place of welding and will tear the metal before separating or failing. What I know of cyanoacrylate in general is that they are immensely strong but also brittle.

    Have they changed the characteristics of cyanoacrylate glues enough to glue an aluminum boat together and handle the flexing and vibrations? If they have how expensive are these new versions.

    Very curious on this.
     
  3. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 4,707
    Likes: 315, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1485
    Location: Midcoast Maine

    DCockey Senior Member

    What is your source of knowledge about cyanoacrylate glues? Consumer cyanoacrylate glues are typically ethyl cyanoacrylate, not methyl cyanoacrylate. Cyanoacrylate - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate

    A 2004 article comparing various structural adhesives: A guide to selection of methacrylate, urethane and epoxy adhesives https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/a-guide-to-selection-of-methacrylate-urethane-and-epoxy-adhesives A quote from that article:
    Peter Carbutt of ITW Plexus (Danvers, Mass., U.S.A.) says that in recent years methacrylates have been formulated to have the strength of epoxy but with considerably greater ductility. High ductility provides excellent fatigue life in any application where repeated shock loads are expected, such as boats, wind turbine blades and truck bed structures.
     
    Dejay likes this.
  4. Sean Duval
    Joined: Mar 2019
    Posts: 26
    Likes: 7, Points: 3
    Location: yuma az

    Sean Duval Junior Member

    Well I have some serious reading to do now...thank you very much for the bit of enlightenment, and the link to more.

    I really am not and did not intend to insult or disparage the design and hope it wasn't taken that way by anyone. I will pour over all the information provided now...well once i get off work.

    Again thank you, and thank you for setting me straight.

    Sean
     
  5. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 4,707
    Likes: 315, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1485
    Location: Midcoast Maine

    DCockey Senior Member

    No updated news about the Rambler 38 since March 2018 on the Rambler website. Nothing on Lyman Morse's website or social media about the Rambler 38. Nothing found about launch of a prototype.
     
  6. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 6,610
    Likes: 617, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    This quote can be applied to ANY vessel that has CNC parts.
    The above is just sales blurb to sound impressive or new and exciting. But it is not.
     
  7. Sean Duval
    Joined: Mar 2019
    Posts: 26
    Likes: 7, Points: 3
    Location: yuma az

    Sean Duval Junior Member

    After your initial answer to my questions, and a bunch of reading on my part....I find this to be a very interesting idea indeed. Now if Ijust wouldn't have spent all that time and effort learning to mig weld aluminum so I could build my dream boat.

    That said it appears to be a very good option for some folks, and definitely for some stuff that I would have a hard time figuring out how to weld or is too thin for my skill and equipment.

    Being a huge pessimist I may at some point try it out fabricating an idea I have for a quick moving yet efficient jonboat for the lower Colorado river.

    That way if I mess it up...I can float back down river

    Thank you for bringing the product to my attention.
     
  8. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 8,926
    Likes: 596, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    The snag, as I understood it, was with oxidation of the metal before the joint could be glued, compromising the integrity of it. Maybe that is passe nowadays, because it is certainly not uncommon in the motor or aviation industries practices, I also seem to recall that some epoxies are now being deemed suitable for the job.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019

  9. JamesG123
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 655
    Likes: 75, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Columbus, GA

    JamesG123 Senior Member

    This. Beware of any company and claims that come from a web site that looks like a college web authoring project, without any actual pictures of the product.
     
    Ad Hoc likes this.
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.