Climate change falsehood

I Found something to agree with in ALL of the last posts, especially "eating pond scum...tofu..." I see it the same way...
However, I've despised some individuals on this forum as much as a human could despise anyone he has never met and I can figuratively assassinate a jihadist or pirate with the best of them but a being with a face, even one I disagree with so much, even if it is face only rendered in words and all too often attachments(!), I think should be left out of it. I know you were kidding but it put a knot in my stomache when you said, "Cool, I vote you die first!" At least Boston has passion and concur with him, or not, I think probably good genetics for a post-WWlll world.
I still don't know how I get sucked into these posts having nothing to do with boats. I exchanged epithets with some dude in Chile for months. My ire raises every time I volunteer at the veteran's center and think of any European not actively licking the sweat off these old men's balls. Some things just piss me off. I suppose I should just stay the heck away from here and spend the twenty minutes I allot for this on something else.

 

whats funny in a sick kind of way is that if we want to preserve fishing in the future we need to actively defend what fishing we have left and in a dam sustainable way with effective rules and regulations instead of ineffective. likewise unless we want to all be eating pond scum we had better get a grip on climate change cause it seriously effects food production.
it is projected that the consumption of meet will double by 2050 and the population will grow to 9.1 billion. One of my faves in the whole human logic is that we tend to build our best farmland into urban land and move farming farther away onto less productive land. Brilliant eh, so this extra what ~2.5 billion folks are going to end up taking a crap on our best land rather than hang out tending that pond scum which is all they and us will have if we dont start waking up a little.
point being it all ties together and its all got be fixed in some coordinated manor
by the way its not possible to double the rate of meat consumption so what that figure is really saying is that meat will become a huge luxury item in a very short time

idiots pretending the problems dont exist are the biggest problem of all

 

Again going for the man Boston so I will return in kind, again. Have you not wondered why all your 'debates' follow the same degenerative path? Hell I'm still fence sitting on this issue (but ultimately focused on a more immediate and somewhat negating issue) and your 'style' has pushed me to the opposite pole.

This is not a win/lose thing? What is it with you, I'm sure its a cultural thing this "win at any cost" attitude that hobbles mature reasoned discussion.

We are often like children, taking the benefit of the environment provided by those (parents) that do the hard and dirty work all the while heaping scorn on them because the work offends some or other of our sensibilities. We tear at them until they stand aside and there is nothing between us and the realities that they face. Then when faced with the same reality and hard choices we find ourselves with a clearer understanding of what it actually means to have to achieve things in the real world. Oddly we often find ourselves choosing between the very evils that we loudly decried not so long before.

 

You missed the point... who decides who dies and who lives, its an ugly question, no? Possibly simple if you are a patriot but for many of us its a stomach churning concept so to glibly advocate that WWIII is a solution makes me want to see those who believe that first in line... I vote they go first.

 

Boston,
1). I grew up near Tacoma. The fish in Commencement Bay had deformities from the heavy metals.
2). I worked in Seattle for a number of winters. The fish in the Duwamish had deformities from the heavy metals.
3). I transited to Singapore, Thailand, India, Egypt. I live part of the year in Mexico. Less heavy metals, much more sewage. You can smell India and Egypt before you can see them.
4). I visit friends in Finland. Plenty of heavy metals in Helsinki Harbor.
5). When on a visit to Venice, take your nose plug and bottled water (and watch your wallet).
6). In Alaska, logging operations overload some bays with wood chips, amongst other things and the water locally turns acidic, miners are sometimes a little sloppy (Google "Pebble Mine" for weeks of arguments "aye" or "nay" on this topic) Hatcheries produce so many God-damned fish that they eat the natives out of house and home, compete with natives over redd areas, then die and overwhealm the micro-system of a given stream (Hatcheries and fish farms are topics we might not want to get me rolling on).
7). I've heard stories that well explain why I wouldn't eat a "Beautiful Swimmer" unless very, very hungry.
8). I have seen LA harbor after a big rain with everything from bodies to tires and grass-clippings choking its "most environmentally aware" status into a morbid irony.

We're probably gonna' agree on this - (you better sit down) I think that there is too much pollution...

Breathing again?

I also think that we are at a tipping point, as a civilization. Tho nobody can argue that man doesn't cause most of the gnarly polluton, I think that we had better be very careful about shutting down the wheels of industry because we want the oceans to stay clean.
Tho not the inexhaustable garbage sink people believed when I was born, it can probably take some more than what we have given it (come on...one more bite!) I have nothing to base this on other than my own observations of how much **** has been allowed to adulterate our waters and the earnest desire for it to be true so permit me to paint a picture (not a painted ship but on a painted [polluted] sea...) of what I believe will happen if we go down this path right now.
In our weakened economic state as is being constructed by Acorn and Barack Obama (the two are inextricably interwined - remember that I said this) and in this state made more vulnerable by decreases in defence (or "offence" spending - I don't care for this argument), we will not be able to effectively defend ourselves by the end of a second Obama term.
Who hates us (Westerners) more than they love their own children? Does anyone pretend to believe that under Shiria law there would be the "fairness" so ensconced in today's politics? In the Ummah that replaces civilization if we lose the war that is about to happen, the survivors will be dhimmi subjects, if not downright slaughtered or enslaved, responsible to pay almost as much taxes as will be necessary to pay off Obama's "stimulus" (at least there is not much money needed in the Muslim world - build a few gold palaces to show off, a Mercedes for the religious leaders, and everybody eats lamb's heads and hummus - right (don't think we're getting any Kabobs!))? Listen, I could go on with this all day but my point is that this might not be the best timing to hang an albatross from our own neck.


Water, water every where, nor any a drop to drink...

 

YES! We are in a corner of our own making and now every choice comes with some potentially very heavy penalties. Over weighing any of the issues here will have undesired and bad repercussions, we have to work a way out of this as humanity, whole. Is that even possible? Will we indeed fight? There is nothing easy about this.

 

again not able to see the forest for the trees instead wishing to engage in a pissing contest and then whine foul when you find yourself completely outclassed

I love how you attempt to blame the messenger for the tantrums of the recipient of that message. I dont see where you need any justification from me for your tantrum like reactions, my bet is your obvious level of immaturity has been a key element in your inability to effectively communicate with people long before I had the displeasure to run into your childish crap.

I take it my attempts at admonishing everyone over on the climate thread to step back and take a breather and maybe act in a little more civilized way embarrassed you sufficiently to what, bring your pathetic attempts to blame your actions on others over to this thread

 

They are right, you are a bully aren't you?

 

Mark
I grew up on the cape and can attest all that you describe accusing there as well
right down to a big oil spill off the vineyard shoals about thirty years ago that completely demolished the ecosystem round Nantucket 1 and 2
its not really ever been the same and if you dig into the bottom in some locations can still come up with hard black goo on your dive knife
storms are still driving globs up from the bottom and last I was there I saw many
the Lovels island area is devoid of large fish last I dove there

I could go on but the thing is that the effort to fix it needs to be coordinated and steady in order to actually make a difference
so along with a ban on petroleum based plastics we need to also clean up sewage water effluent and urban run off along with making a serious effort to remove what plastic is in the oceans.

 

although I generally don't subscribe to the basic Judo-christianic thought process or diatribe I have found that were the golden rule fails an eye for an eye generally works just fine
anytime you want to play nice
all you need do is act in a civilized manor

 

No sorry, I think its now a question of character. I have read back and it seems you are most often the instigator of the cycle of insult. It seems to be a part of your style to align yourself with as many names as you can drop and degrade anyone on the opposing side by getting personal about their position.

As hard as you seem to find it to believe, I do get your argument, I also get the opposite argument and I see a far more important (in a practical sense) over arching issue that, if dealt with correctly, can ameliorate the entire problem and enable us to move forward to the next even larger issue of over population. Its you and your dismissive and insulting attitude that has pushed me back into a position where I find myself assessing you and not your argument. I don't want to waste time with this sort stuff, this will be my last reply to you.

 

sound like a great decision on your part
and a lot of denial as well
I particularly like how you do dont take any responsibility for your posts and blame people reactions to you on others
I am merely willing to state what I believe to be an informed position and attempt to adequately defend it or if presented with sufficient evidence to the contrary concede the point

its your own need to "win" that requires you to take your bat and ball and go home so to speak certainly far more of a reflection of your own character than a reflection of mine

seems the question of character has been answered as I was more than willing to move on to a more civilized level of conversation any time and stated so clearly.

 

I could dig it up and post it but I'll leave it to those who don't believe - like with the spill you talk about, the most storm-ravaged beaches in Alaska, one would think are clean this long after 1989. Not so. Take a shovel and find oil anywhere it was then. A lot of what was not accounted for is probably rolling along in the Aleutian trench or in Japan, by now. We lost as much oil in that one incident (Exxon Valdez) as is dumped down storm drains every year. Almost as much as what seeps naturally off the coast of California. Not to minimize, but to remind people to watch their **** - it doesn't cost anything and I believe we should be targeting the resourses off California first.
The plastic thing - I get your point and tend to disagree because I think the solution to that is education and minimising uses that end up on the ground or in the water by taxation (We tax bags in my little community and people screamed to high heaven. I just reuse 'em. They are handy and serve a purpose but the less educated the populous, the more thay end up in a turtle gullet, or whatever). I guess severe punishment for littering won't go over too big in todays political environment - they would call it discriminatory because only dumbasses toss. Like graffitti and vandalism, I would punish by death - only a few, maybe one, would ever get the penalty and the rest would shape-up - It might even save lives!

 

Yikes, death...!

I liked the idea of reusing glass, was that so bad? Gone are the days that the kids could make a buck by finding bottles and returning them for another trip around the system. I never had pocket money but I was a top class glass and aluminium can scavenger, these days I'd have been on a lolly free diet!

 

ya Ive been back to the old Vineyard numerous times and no mater what there is always, just below the surface, the remains of that spill. It tragic cause there was a lot of life down in that gravel shell mix. Clams and bristly worms that fed a lot of fish
seems to me they did a pis poor job of cleaning up

the bioplasitcs basically come in two forms
one you can chuck in water and it completely breaks down and its the one the EU is pushing for
I would tend to agree with them as it also contains no long or short chain carbon molecules typically associated with plastics
the other degrades in contact with dirt and its certainly an improvement but not as good as the other

although both work fine in a gasification plant should the public service people ever decide to move on from coal
we got plenty of trash
why not use it as fuel eh

the place were I sorta work for those who know is building a 20 million dollar private gassification plant to power the entire facility on its own waste