Classic Catamaran

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by FirstLight, Sep 17, 2007.

  1. achipmunk
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    achipmunk Junior Member

    no idea, think you 'd better check the links brian eiland provided.
     
  2. yipster
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    yipster designer

    my reaction was over Rudy Choy Designs, hawain style asymetric boardless slender cats that could be improved
    for upwind sailing and more. the ladybird drawing has no classic looks but does follow that school
     
  3. FirstLight
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    FirstLight Junior Member

    Stumbled onto something interesting

    Back in December I wrote hoping to find aset of plans that would incoporate the "Wharram look" with a fewof the modern design ideas..

    Interestingly enough, just today (5 months later) I stumbled onto a website that has such designs..

    I know nothing about the designer and doubt if any of his boats have been built but it was nice to see such plans out there...

    www.catamarandesigns.com

    More to follow after I learn more..

    R
     
  4. clothears
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    clothears Junior Member

    a classic catamaran

    I realise a long time has passed since firstlight began pondering his possible choice of a more classic catamaran.But like a lot of these things life is what happens while we are making plans. So perhaps these plans may be just what you are looking for.They are certainly a hybrid of what you describe as well as having the benefit of modern thinking.http://www.constellationyachts.com/rustic-3/DSC01754.jpg.html
     
  5. bertho
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    bertho bertho

    hi guys, i was just thinking about the same desing. (# clothears link ) ..i like it ! also from nigel, but i will stick to heavy duty monohull....!!!
    www.fusionshooner.blogspot.com
    bertho
     
  6. clothears
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    clothears Junior Member

    more classic catamaran

    Yes Bertho I agree with the heavy displacement mono,especially where very serious oceans are concerned.But I also have a nagging tendency towards the multi hulls.I have always found the great bulk of current designs (and many older ones) lack what I would call the tradition of the sea. I am besotted with the likes of the Murray Peterson coaster, Grand Banks schooner, William Fife. George Lawley etc etc. I have been told that it is nigh on impossible to achieve this look in a multihull. But I suspect it may be possible and that there would be an untapped market for such a design.If you look at the very first clip in this british car film from the sixties on you tube you will see a very good attempt at what I am suggesting may be possible.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L40MuewcWh8 It is far from perfect but rather a good step in the right direction I feel.I should be very grateful for others opinions.Certainly the stability issues are always front and center when designing a cat.
    Cheers.
     
  7. jmolan
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    jmolan Junior Member

    I am not a big fan of most modern day cats, looks wise, and the way you have to go up two stories to drive them.

    That Irens boat is fantastic! Man that guy can design a boat. Where form meets funtcion in a thing of beauty.

    I like John Marples boats. There is a samll amount of info here:

    http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/mainpages/gallery?KID=56

    The 50' below appeals to me like the older CSK boats did.

    By the way, the molds for the Poly Con are available for free. If they do not find a home they will be destroyed soon.

    http://www2.yachtworld.com/boats/vi...eet&access=Public&listing_id=1634&page=broker

    38' catamaran molds to make boat in above pic. Poly Con, a round bottom, symmeterical hull design by C/S/K. Most hardware, some sails, fiberglass, core foam, etc. Make offer. So. CA (760) 945-9161.
     

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  8. clothears
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    clothears Junior Member

    more classic catamaran

    I have managed to find more information on what I would call a more classic look.I investigated the possibility of building a cat that would encompass a more golden era look some years ago. I was told it could not be done successfully and would look like a dogs breakfast.Why do I listen to the doomsayers?When I discovered Tsulamaran built circa 1965 by Prout any doubts I had quickly evaporated.This design could be fine tuned and still look the goods today. Just look at the bridgedeck clearance! The coachwork is precisely what is missing now.Okay there are a lot of things that need tinkering with but this would mean a multihull that could have intrinsic beauty.
    http://www.britishpathe.com/thumbna...n=3997&stills=79&time_offset=5&record_id=2102 I should be most interested to ask the question.......would you consider buying such a vessel? Does she appeal to your artistic mind set?Am I too far to the right of mainstream thinking or am I perhaps right were we all wish we could be when it comes to multihull design?
    More traditional.
     
  9. jmolan
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    jmolan Junior Member

  10. sabahcat
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    sabahcat Senior Member

  11. clothears
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    clothears Junior Member

    more classic catamaran

    I am rather impressed with look of the Marples boat but again it is still not the sort of thing I am picturing in my minds eye.Certainly Tsulamaran comes closest to what I have in mind, but is not quite there.I was nevertheless very excited when I found her and feel she is an excellent startig point.After all Prout has a fabulous reputation for fine craft. I know that weight is always an issue with cats but I still feel the classic touches such as Varnished bridgedecks done in teak,skylights,perhaps horn ventilators and lattice work afterdecks to allow fast draining but still look nautical/classic in the tradition of the great schooners would make for a great looking vessel. For example I looked at long bowspirts as being possible.I had a discussion with a designer some years back and hobby horsing was among his prime concerns but he did in the end feel it was possible to overcome it even with a traditional reverse bow long bowsprit look.
    I have a very basic drawing I did a long while back....I will see if I can find it and post for some critique.
     
  12. clothears
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    clothears Junior Member

    more classic catamaran

    [​IMG]
     

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  13. jmolan
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    jmolan Junior Member

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  14. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    Interesting thread with a wild mix of ideas....the Marples and Irens designs are excellent examples......the Prout is (IMO) an example of horrible design.

    clothears.....you seem to be mistaking varnished cabin sides for good design....it's not. I have the September 1965 issue of Yachting World which published the launching of Tsulamaran, also drawings and pictures of her in Cruising Catamarans by AYRS. Ugly high-sided reverse sheer, under rigged, ineffectual centerboards, undersized rudders, horrible accommodation chopped up into little rooms with tiny windows, the Prouts got almost nothing right. To be fair they had little to go on...but still. I do like the pilothouse with P&S doors, but then there is nowhere to spend time outside on the boat. And she was designed for Mediterranean cruising! They missed a huge opportunity with the aft cabin/aft deck, making it a skippers cabin. It should have been owner's quarters with sliding glass doors onto the private stern. I wonder what happened to her?

    Her construction was almost bizarre....described as...."wood with fiberglass sheathing to 2ft above waterline. Five laminations have been used, the inner one being .25" vertical teak overlapping (?), then .25" diagonal teak, .5" cedar fore and aft, .25" vertical teak and finally a skin of .25" diagonal mahogany. Deck is solid teak laid over .5" plywood." Apparently they installed a great deal of 2" polystyrene insulation and AC, this probably lead to her early demise due to rot.

    In 1969 MacLear & Harris of New York came out with a very similar boat, but better in every way. She was the 72' Quickstep II, beam is 30', an increase of 6' over Tsulamaran. Working sail area 2800 sq ft, and increase of 1100 sq ft over the earlier Prout design. Quickstep was build of wood, mostly hardwood, in Taiwan and shipped to Florida for finishing, drawings below.

    MacHarris72cat.jpg

    MacHarr72cat.jpg
     

  15. clothears
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    clothears Junior Member

    more classic catamaran

    Thanks for the excellent input Tad.However I think you are mistaking design with style. I agree with you on almost every point you make regarding design.
    But I am certainly not mistaking varnished cabin sides with good design.
    If you reference my earlier comments you will note that I mentioned there was much that had advanced since those days.The same can be said for a william fife for example if one were being highly objective.I really do feel many designers ( particularly of catamarans) have become so engrossed in designing efficiency into their boats(which is so essential in cat design) that they have forgotten to put heart and soul into the appearance.You can have both. No, my point is all about making the multihull more beautiful and less like a whitegoods effort from k-mart or a propulsion unit from starwars.I have argued the abilities of catamarans to so many people and more often than not there is agreeance but resistance to their appearance.
    So many of them have much the same look.I feel you are being harsh on Prout.It was afterall 1965 when she was launched and cat design was in its infancy.We must avoid judging previous eras by todays yardsticks. Judged in her own era she was a pretty good effort.By the way I am emailing a gentleman who worked on and sailed her and he seems to think she is still around.Despite her polystyrene.Whether or not this is true I should like to know.Do you agree that Fontaine Pajot seem to have embraced the flat high sided look with great sales success.I was very underwhelmed by the Mclear and Harris boat on some levels and highly impressed on others.On a pure design basis she is very impressive but yet again looks lika million other cats.As an interesting aside I will shorty have some super 8mm footage and stills of Tsulamarans construction and sailing abilities all transposed onto DVD.This will be most interesting.Dont let me give you the impression that I dont agree with almost all the points you make Tod.Its just that I feel that Tsulamaran or others like her(of which there are not many) can be revisited and with the benefits of modern design....computers etc.....I feel she may well be an opportunity to bring beauty into the equation.Of course beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and I agree there are angles where she is downright ugly.But I do see the makings of a Mona Lisa too.
     

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